World Editor suggestions by avid campaign maker


#1

Hello,

I’m OutsiderXE. I have been making fan campaigns for Blizzard RTS games since 2002. I have also created a Starcraft II co-op map named Primal Ascension, which won third place in the Rock the Cabinet 2017 contest. (Details on my page: http://www.outsiderxe.campaigncreations.org/) . Here is my wish list for the WarCraft III Reforged World Editor:

General:

  • Add a dark mode
  • Add possibility to add different locales (see SC2 editor)

Campaign Editor:

  • Add campaign triggers/shared triggers across campaign maps
  • Add feature for multiplayer campaigns/map-linking via Battle.net and/or LAN
  • Fix custom campaign difficulty bug (resets when ending a map)

Terrain Editor:

  • Painting terrain pathing (blocked, unbuildable etc.) (see SC2 editor)
  • Being able to hide regions
  • Diamond shaped regions
  • Being able to combine or subtract regions (aka negative regions; see SC2 editor)
  • Being able to select/copy terrain, units and doodads at the same time
  • Being able to load (and resize) an image as a planning overlay

Trigger Editor:

  • Functions, local variables (see SC2 editor)
  • Being able to transform/move custom dialogs
  • Items being able to target items in the inventory (example use: point & click adventures or mixing potions)
  • Sub-folders in triggers list (see SC2 editor)
  • Custom icons for triggers and folders in triggers list (see SC2 editor)
  • Being able to select/copy/paste multiple triggers
  • Cinematics: Remove the necessity to add a skip-check after each wait (see your own WC3 in-game cinematic triggers to see what I mean; see SC2 editor for solution)
  • Automatically remove triggers for the trigger queue when they end
  • Being able to create multiple (named) queues
  • Being able to create/attack special effects on items
  • Cinematics: Remove the necessity to add a skip-check after each wait (see your own WC3 in-game cinematic triggers to see what I mean; see SC2 editor for solution)
  • Automatically remove triggers for the trigger queue when they end
  • Being able to create multiple (named) queues
  • Being able to add triggers to a queue inside a trigger (see SC2 editor)

Object Editor:

  • True customization, not based on pre-existing units (especially concerning abilities)
  • Suffixes
  • Automatically create disabled icons
  • Being able to manually set unique identifiers
  • Being able to import object data without deleting pre-existing custom data
  • Being able to create custom races

Import Editor:

  • Folder structure (see SC2 editor)

Thank you for your time,

OutsiderXE


#2

These would be some seriously welcome additions. I’m kind of concerned they will hold back improving the editor due to how many people find the sc2 editor confusing.

I personally hope they do allow us to swap between wc3 style and sc2 style. Sure it’s a pain to learn but when you get the hang of it it’s very difficult to go back to wc3 style and it’s limitations.


#3

How about bigger map sizes?
How about tools like creating smooth and more realistic landscape rather than everything needing to be cliffs, ramps and flat grounds?
Better camera controls and free roam?

Or are the purists going to jump at my throat to tell me this is also a core mechanic?


#4

IMHO the problem was they only offered the long / hard way. No per-tile terrain brush. Adding attacks and spells required entering details that weren’t present in WC3 and could’ve been defaulted (based on the chosen unit or spell art) - maybe even hidden behind an “advanced” category.

That and the fact that SC2 terrain was inferior to WC3’s (1/2 resolution cliffs and no true pathable water).


#5

I like the landscape - for me, the discrete tile-based cliffs and tile-based terrain-type are part of the game’s identity. That said, they’re updating the terrain graphics so you might get some more smoothability.

Even I might say that zoom limit is important for melee. But having free (even 6DoF?) camera available for custom maps would be good.


#6

As long as the editor remains easy to pickup like the War3 editor is, I’m down with all these improvements.

Maybe hide them behind an advanced window though, so you don’t HAVE to modify them in order to get stuff to work.

Nothing frustrated me more than how horrible StarCraft 2’s editor turned out. In War3 I could just ctrl C and then ctrl V with ANY UNIT AT ALL IN THE GAME and I would have a fully functional custom unit that I could modify to suit my needs.

With SC2, you try and ctrl c and ctrl v a unit? It won’t work. You gotta go under the hood and reconnect all the actors, weapons, etc. All that crap. Oh, and GL making a custom kerrigan with the lightning attack and stuff. Took me hours just to figure out how to partially make it when it should have been as easy as ctrl C, ctrl V.


#7

IIRC you had a tool in WC3’s map editor that specifically let you artificially raise or lower the elevation of terrain without actually telling the game ‘this is high ground’ or ‘this is low ground.’


#8

I’m cool with most of these changes, but I agree with TheMechE that I want the simple stuff to stay simple. Custom units in SC2 was a nightmare to learn, while it was merely copy/paste then change what needed to be changed in WC3. While I understand the extra steps in Starcraft were to give more control to the creator… boy… I just simply do not make these maps for a living to get that invested. Simplicity is good, and jumping on that argument about new players, it could attract new mod makers to the scene.

I do like adding more triggers for campaign functions though, since some things like carrying heroes, items, and difficulties between missions could prove buggy.

Not sure how I feel about the painting feature, it might look weird in Warcraft 3. Honestly, the only issue I had with the Warcraft 3 terrain related to cliffs. There was the fact that I couldn’t change the base cliff textures without going through a risky process, this would leave only two textures (usually dirt or grass) to work with. You were also limited to two cliffs types per map. If they could allow more customization on the cliffs, changeable base textures and allowed more cliff types to be added to a map, my one real complaint on terrain would be gone.


#9

1.trigger set unit ability botton X,Y.
2.trigger set MagicBook ability.
3.trigger set item ability.
4.TextTag can use HD Text and Art(pic or model),like ‘’ Crit’’ ‘‘Gold’’ for Heroes.
5. The characteristics of HP/MP Bar,like Heroes.
6. Reduce instruction delay in WC3.


#10

HiveWE already has a folder structure as far as Import Manager goes.On the other hand i am planning to add the ability to create custom races inside the Object Edtior as well.

EDIT: There’s also the idea of having multiple maps opened at the same time so it would be easy for campaign makers.


#11

A minor thing, but being able to change hotkeys through triggers would be neat.


#12

Love your work!

Are you planning to update any of your previous maps for Reforged? If you need any custom models, hit me up.


#13

you can do that using jass, not through their GUI though :frowning:

in fact the editor has a lot of functionality not presented in the GUI, it would be a good idea if they added them all.


#14

What do you mean by this? Dark UI theme? Or turn display brightness down when in a dark room?

Warcraft III already has this in the form of third party support… Localized files can be stored using specific locales in the MPQ. MPQ was designed around this in mind although WorldEdit does not expose the feature. That said folder based localization as is being used by the CASC file system and StarCraft II would be preferable.

Warcraft III already supports this internally, just not in WorldEdit. You can use HiveWE to paint pathing but normal WorldEdit overwrites it. WorldEdit currently bakes terrain and doodad pathing to a pathing map file.

What does this mean? You want to hide 4x4 terrain mesh patches or something?

Regions are a collection of map cells so this can already be emulated to some degree by writing a region fill function.

If you are referring to rects (what one places in the terrain editor) then the key is in the name. A rect is an axis aligned rectangular area and will always be so. GUI triggers automatically convert the rect into a region for use with the enters/exits region events.

One should be able to remove cells from a region, hence a negative region is possible via a custom function. That said someone I tried this for complained it did not work so some investigation is needed.

Both JASS and LUA support these already. If you want the functionality exposed in GUI then it might happen.

To elaborate. The functionality to select and manipulate multiple separate triggers at the same time. Currently one can copy/paste/delete entire folders of triggers at once, but not a greater than 1 subset of such a folder.

Not possible. Even StarCraft II bases everything on something else. That said having generic alternatives for abilities that link to unique implementation behaviour might be a good idea, kind of like StarCraft II.

I think you are requesting bulk object merger functionality. Be aware that this might not be the easiest to implement or accurate if implemented due to how object types are referenced by 4 character type codes.

If you mean the 4 digit type ID codes like JNGP and WEX allowed one to then this is coming soon.


#15

I’d also like to add some World Editor ideas for the Editor, preferably to the terrain subsection.

  • Terrain painting (Referencing how it’s done in SC2 - Where two tilesets can overlay)
  • Larger map boundary (1024x1024 - You never know when someone will need extra space, I know we already have one bigger than 500x500, though it never hurts to give a sense of limitless potential)
  • Boundary Accuracy (I personally despise how difficult it becomes. All the tilesets are bound inside a 2x2 grid, which makes perfect sense, whereas the boundary crosses over the grid’s border. It makes it harder to control and a simple mouse movement makes it cover an area you don’t want it to - It’s a nuisance!)
  • Boundary Bug (There is a bug regarding boundaries. When they are set next to a camera boundary and then erased, it can create a small, 1x1 square gap (Or a 0.5x0.5 gap in the camera boundary zone, not sure on the size of it but it happens)
  • Detailed Terraining (While we are still at the accuracy point, I would like to point out that terraining can go even more into detail, as there is still a lot more grid lines to consider. If we move more into detail, we could quite possibly create 1x1 sized cliffs rather than the 2x2 sized ones that we currently use. What’s more, if we move deeper into detail, the 1x1 grid can go into 32x32 small lined grids. This much accuracy is not required, though going into deeper detail would be lovely when you think about creating a natural river, rather than a well planned, linear canal)
  • Less Hill Height Constrictions (Yeah… This would be awesome lol)

#16

Re: Detailed Terraining & Terrain Painting:

You’re asking to be able to optionally ignore the tiled nature of the terrain, which is part of WC3’s signature look.

I guess if it’s optional that’s OK (as long as I don’t have to fight to avoid terrain mixing within a tile, which was a big time waster in SC2). But I wouldn’t want them to spend too much time on this that could be better spent elsewhere.


#17

They’re removing this outdated aspect of WC3’s terrain - the terrain tiling system is being completely overhauled and I should hope so, it’s 2019.

It most definitely should include terrain texture blending and a fully customisable lighting system ala SC2.


#18

One doesn’t imply the other. They are updating the terrain system, which is good as it will allow more terrain on a single map, and supposedly better interaction (shadows etc). But that doesn’t mean that tiling will be unavailable for those that still want it - that would me a major step backwards.


#19

Tiling makes ZERO sense in a modern game.

Do you want this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycKgW9teCZA

Then accept modern terrain blending features ala SC2.


#20

Looks pretty, but no I don’t want my melee maps to look like that. Campaign, sure some can look like that, but I’d prefer if most looked more WC3-ish. (It’s the tile-ness that I’m missing. The increased texture resolution & the moving grass and plants are both nice).

It’s also an enormous workload increase for mapmakers, like a 500% increase in the terraining workload to get things looking like that. The SC2 modding scene was crippled by the increased workload. I don’t want the same thing in WC3:R.

I’m not personally a fan of minecraft or pixel graphics or impressionism, but there’s something to be said for elegant design while under restrictions. This is similar.