Why make Ritual Dagger useless now

General Discussion
1

So i rly liked the idea of Ritual Dagger. Mb it was to strong on the PTR i dont
know but now lul?

now its 125hp healing in 45 seconds rly ?
that is 2.8 the second that is nothing and takes forever.
why not make it 20 seconds or so i mean just compere it to human

Human has 225 heal over 25 seconds for 25 less gold ,no unit needed to sacrifice. Even if u consider tha dagger has 2 charges Scroll of regen is still stronger in half the time man.

can undead just for once not be on the lower end pls…

3 Likes
2

Just to compare;

Scroll of Regeneration: AoE 225 heal over 25 seconds (+9 HP/s) for 100 gold

Healing Salve: Single Target 400 heal over 45 seconds (+8.9 HP/s) for 33 gold

Sacrificial Dagger: AoE 125 heal over 45 seconds (+2.8 HP/s) for 62.5 gold + 1 sacrificed unit, at a minimum 18.75 cost for a skeleton

Sacrificial dagger winds up costing nearly as much per use as a scroll of regeneration for half the heal, yet takes twice as long to do it.

The healing HP/s is too low to be useful. You can’t spend 90 seconds outside of combat just to heal 250 hp. Standing near a statue heals for 6.7 HP. Healing a crypt fiend from 1 HP to full HP when off blight would take over 3 minutes, costing you 400+ gold in item usages.

6 Likes
3

Hrm, wasnt aware of this change.

Shouldn’t the 1.31 patch notes be up to date to reflect these numbers?

4

Oh yes it should. But it’s not. Like many things in this world. [Read in Varys’ voice.]

But shouldn’t this all be taken with the Unholy Aura’s regeneration bonus in mind? And maybe even the Blight’s one?

5

yeh but isnt the items purpose the give others then dk a chance ? its just like blight not more go try it its absolute joke slow

Item Details

** Sacrifices a friendly Undead unit to heal 100 hit points to all friendly non-mechanical units**
** Damage interrupts regeneration**
** 5 second cooldown between charges**
** 400 cast range**
** 300 effect radius**

they forgot to put in how long
(and from instand to 45 seconds is a bit crazy)

6

Yeah this doesn’t really make sense to me from an observers perspective.

I mean the problem with UD healing isn’t lack of options, its the DKs aura. I was hoping they would take the leap and address the main things making the race static - DKs powerful heals, Orb of Corruptions necessity and the darn aura providing necessary movespeed that seems almost necessary for competitive play.

Ritual dagger sounds nice on paper but with the change it really is a worse scroll that requires way too much to activate. I mean it isn’t even thematic to UD anymore if it does the same heal over time but even longer, UD sacrifice abilities should be very potent and instant.

2 Likes
7

This is really the design element I was wondering about. They have parallel effects like Death Pact and Dark Ritual. They’re potent, instant abilities with notable returns in order to make up for the fact you’re killing one of your own units for it. The dagger is just along the lines of Orc’s salve, but weak in exchange for it being AOE rather than single target.

8

with aura and blight included, this healing is unnecessary anyways. they didn’t need this dagger :\

9

what if instead of adding the ritual of dagger, they nerf the DK aura and add/increase every units standard regeneration… I know undead units don’t regen but why not? just cause of blight? why cant they have have a smaller regen off blight and a larger regen on blight? this way would make other heroes more viable

10

That’s the thing, though. They’re trying to open up some new avenues for Undead rather than Death Knight constanly.

A base regen significantly lower than the other races, then a much more aggressive regen on Blight wouldn’t be that terrible of an idea (depending on the numerical values).

11

I would had a better idea for Ritual Dagger:

Level 1 Item, Tier 1 Item, 100 Gold Cost, No Item Cooldown, 2 Item Stocks,
90 Seconds Item Stock Replenishment, Same area of effect healing radius as Scroll of Regeneration, with the follow effects below:

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 0 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 0 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 225 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 1 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 450 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 2 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 675 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 3 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 900 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 4 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 1125 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 5 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 1350 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 6 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 1575 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 7 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 1800 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 8 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 2025 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 9 Undead player unit.

225 HP Heal over 45 seconds + 2250 HP overtime bonus for sacrificing Level 10 Undead player unit.

3 Likes
12

What if the point of the dagger is to deny the enemy xp by sacrificing your own unit before it dies by the enemy’s hand?

13

isn’t that already an ability the DK and Lich king both have? the item basically gives players a choice to cast the spell twice in a row… why copy the same spells into a new item instead of just balancing the real issue which has to do with overall unit HP regeneration and the DKs aura

1 Like
14

No, you don’t understand. The dagger already does this. I’m not suggesting an addition. I’m suggesting looking at the item differently.

The reason the heal is weak is because of the other things you can do with it.

15

Is the heal over time not cancelled upon being attacked? Is it different than healing salve and scroll of rejuv? I didn’t know this is a combat heal if so. I thought the whole point of this item was to make it easier for non-DK first picks to heal units out of combat.

If it’s still cancelled in combat, then sacrificing to deny EXP is still not worth the cost of the dagger, and the low healing provided is just insult to injury. You’re better off microing burrow or just sending ghouls back to base.

16

Can you Devour Magic the heal with a Destro? Would be cute.

Also, the Dagger having a 5 sec cooldown is bad - denying units easily and en masse is just too stupid.

Bring back the PTR version but nerf it to 75?

17

Reduce the time to 25 seconds, but remember that Undead get the best passive regen in the game on Blight, and Skulls can’t be dispelled until tier 2.

18

With all the new patches and changes they make the balance way worst when before.
I dont know why blizzard hate UD so much. Its the weakest race from the begining of the game and everytime they buff it, it took less than a week to nerf it to the ground and make it even worst.
Ud is the worst race for picking first hero, UD is the worst race for going late in the game, simply because UD expansion is a no brain, also DK level 6 skill its the worst in the game and should have been rebalanced long time ago. Ud is the easiest race to get abuse. Orc abuse it with BM and UD have hard time moving from base, creeping or whatever. HU abuse acolytes with MK or Pala on mid late game. I mean its big gg if you go late vs HU, that is obvious. The only race that have time cap to finish the game or simply alt + qq, cause no sense to play late.
Against Elf it was kinda balance, still if the game goes late and Elf for example play Warden its pretty fun fu***** your acolytes. If plays DH + Panda they still f***** you hard on late game. They nerfed the destro, yet there is absolutely no need for that, they even nerf the devoar/dispell, and let me tell you right away that UD is worst for that as well. They nerf Orb of Corruption, again a item that doesnt deserve a nerf.
Yet they didnt touch the Lich, who die in 2 shots. They nerf Frost Armor .... And let me ask straight away, what exactly they buff, that is viable to play on High Levels? Also zero change or buff for UD heroes. People complain about DK and that his healing is strong, but that is a pure lie. Firstable DK is nothing special as a hero, neither his attack speeed or his dmg or his armor. One of the worst hero if you look overall at his ability. Just 2 useful skill - Coil and Unholy aura. People are crying about UD healing, when the Paladin heal is better + cost less mana. Should i have HU have good healing scrolls ? Elf have free healing, but nothing imba about it. And Orc have Shadow Hunter with imba healing, that at level 3 heals for 1500 life. Is that real life? 300 heal per unit, jump 5 times, understand 5 units x 300 = 1500. On every f**** level its a better heal than Coil.
And as well Orc Have imba heal scrolling.
And Orc can creep easily, dont need to sacrifice anything, and they can steal creeps, so they can heal as much as they can and they won`t lose much resource for that, simply because they gain more from creeps.

So some people here and blizz suggest, UD to totally get away from the game for 45 sec, in that time any race will take 1 big camp and probably 1 small. Yet UD have to be f**** and stand in base to heal.
What they did for UD vs Orc matchup ? They make it even worst for the UD.
How they balance UD to be equally strong to the others - they make the race even worst and make it even weaker.
UD players deserve for once UD to be the strongest race in the game. They deserve it after all the torture they get.
I dont see why this ........ doesnt proper balance the game. It`s not that hard.
Instead they make the worst race even more worst and totally unbalance the other races as well.

19

I think, if Blizzard makes the dagger (available at T1) to have attractive features, they can remove the healing scroll from the tomb.

1st option: 125 gold, 1 charge, sacrifice a unit and instantly heal 100 hp to each unit nearby.

2nd option: 125 gold, 2 charges, sacrifice a unit and instantly heal 100 hp in the next 20 seconds to each unit nearby.

20

Ritual Dagger (Ability / Item) - Sacrifices a friendly Undead unit to regenerate 225 hit points plus extra healing bonus per the sacrificed unit’s level over 45 seconds. This item’s healing overtime regeneration cannot be dispelled by attacks and spells.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 0 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 0 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 225 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 1 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 450 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 2 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 675 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 3 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 900 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 4 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 1125 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 5 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 1350 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 6 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 1575 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 7 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 1800 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 8 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 2025 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 9 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

225 Hit Point Healing Over 45 Seconds, Plus 2250 Hit Point Healing Factor For Sacrificed Level 10 Undead Player Unit, Combat Usable, 600 Area Of Effect, No Item Cooldown.

Costs 150 Gold, Tier 1 Equivalent Item, Consumable Item, 2 Item Stocks, 90 Seconds Stock Replenishment, Level 0.375 Worth.

Note 1: I have a better item for Ritual Dagger. It has the same area of effect healing radius as the Human’s Scroll of Regeneration item, with the following effects typed above:

(Note 2: This is my finished updated version of this item, costing 150 gold being combat usable.)