That isn’t the point, the current generation of gamers are the ones who go out of their way fueled by their youtube overlords continually bash a game they most likely never played, the same concept is applied here, if you do not like it, do not interact with the community or give it crap all because you don’t like it.
So I have a question for you… have you been playing the game the past 10 years? Since 2010? Have you been there for the slow player bleed and eventual niche community? Did you know that Warcraft 3 survived for as long as it did because of custom games? Blizzard, while they shouldn’t have removed features initially there, they did see that custom games were by far the most popular thing to play in Warcraft 3 and that automated tournaments, clans and profiles were severely underused especially as time went forward.
Edit: On that note, the huge draw for most of the 10 year veteran players is the graphic overhaul, it’s what I wanted for so long as time moved forward, if you didn’t bother to upgrade your hardware in the meantime, that is your own fault for not keeping up with everyone else.
I fail to see how that’s relevant to a basic multiplayer feature (And some more advanced ones) being removed from a product meant to be an improvement over the original.
As for the graphic overhauls… Even they were seen as divisive in the eyes of some people. I personally like them, but I can see where those who don’t are coming from. And even I have substantial performance issues on a GTX 1060 and i5 4400K, which should be well above the recommended specs. Not to mention all the issues that caused the game to not function correctly.
I take issue with this statement.
I love Warcraft 3. It’s the first game I ever completed on PC, it was a huge portion of my childhood. And hearing that it was getting a modernized version, even being able to update my original installation to this new version, with promises of all kinds of improvements from graphic updates to bringing the campaign more in line with the updated storyline from WoW to expanded World Editor features, it sounded amazing. Yet what we got… was a broken mess that was left to rot for over a year and is only now seeing signs of what could be considered by some to be life.
I want this game to do well. I want it to bring back at least a glimpse of what the golden age of RTS was like. But if this is what we get - a practical spit in the face - I’m supposed to just leave it behind? Toss it to the side?
No, I won’t be quiet, I won’t stop interacting with the community. The community I’ve always been a part of. I will give it crap because I’ve been given the same.
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There’s a line between constructive criticism and flat out hating the game, you can be critical of the game without hating the game but the current generation of gamers do not know the difference between it and will hate the game thinking its proper criticism.
Developers cut unused features from games all the time, why should Blizzard be any different? If I were in Blizzards shoes I would have cut automated tournaments, clans and statistical profiles. The core reason is, players can create their own tournaments and nearly everyone and their mothers use some form of third party social platform like discord, why do we need clans for the game?
Of course you can say guilds don’t need to exist in WoW, except guilds provided other uses besides a social gathering. Clans do not provide anything other than a social gathering point and a tag.
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ignore the white knight shill, join the Chronicles of the Second War, Re-Reforged, and Quenching mod communities and help bring more support to them. I’m also trying to make unique models for special characters in the campaign;
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So would you also want stuff like health handicaps and the ability to choose player colors to also be removed, since they are not “required”?
Player profiles provide a ton of information about someone - tangible benefits to the player who knows how to make use of them. Just because third-party versions exist doesn’t mean that they are good. An inbuilt system provides a baseline for said third-party creators. Now there is none.
Furthermore, not everyone knows about third-party tournaments, nor about the other stuff that got their base game equivalents removed. Fresh blood can’t expect to be made familiar with the way a tournament works without practice - something that the automated ones provided. Same applies to profiles.
That’s a very blanket statement. One that I fail to see much truth in. You’ve not provided much more than what can be reasonably taken as personal experience rather than objective fact.
Can you provide that? An objective fact to support this argument of yours about “today’s gamers”?
I’m already in the Discords of the first 2. I tried Quenching but unfortunately my rig isn’t powerful enough to handle it without significant slowdown. Maybe I’ll use it again once I can upgrade. Furthermore, I don’t see them as distinct communities - just branches of the whole WC3 community.
All of them trying to do the same thing - make the whole game better, whether through graphical improvements, custom campaigns or bringing what Blizzard promised in the first place.
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Looking at steam and the huge hate bandwagon for Fallout 76 from people who have never played it and those that did never played it long enough to form a proper opinion. I defended the game despite knowing all the issues were true, why? Because objectively speaking the game isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. If you can’t accept the good in the game then you don’t have the right to voice a real opinion based ignoring the good and overstating the bad.
As another example, Star Citizen. The only game in current history that has been in development for 10 years and it regularly gets compared to Elite: Dangerous. It objectively has far far more bad than it does good, the only good thing it’s actually doing is the level of detail, outside of that as a game that’s been in development for nearly 5 times the amount of time that vanilla WoW was in development for and having nearly 3 times the budget (star citizen is near the half a billion mark) but has so little in comparison to Elite: Dangerous.
I wouldn’t say I trust Blizzard but Starcraft (including remastered), Starcraft 2, are still great games.
And Warcraft 3 is still great. Quenching Mod and WC3 Champions solve most of the issues that still plaque reforged.
It’s such a complicated question because ‘trust’ is applied subjectively here.
I mean, even in an abusive, control-freak dominated relationship, there is an element of trust in that relationship no matter how twisted it may seem to someone on the outside. Trust is an individual’s matter, not exactly something that can be judged by someone on the outside.
How can anyone trust their own parents after learning that Santa Claus isn’t real? Well, sometimes it’s learning that there’s more to what Parents do and say than just lying about Santa. It’s not right or wrong to maintain or lose trust in them for lying, but it is part of growing to accept that the complicated nature of relationships and how it’s our own choice to see past the lies and value the relationships in our own regard. It’s not on anyone else’s opinion to decide whether it is acceptable for someone to trust a particular relationship, it’s all on the individual.
In this regard, we don’t all have the same relationship with Blizzard as you do individually. It’s much more nuanced than that. Blizzard isn’t a static fixture that will only release failed products like Reforged in the future, and that’s something to consider just as it is to consider that your parents aren’t static fixtures that only produce lies just because they had you believe Santa was real. It’s up to the individual to decide what they value in terms of trust.
Right now, it just hits hard because what Blizzard has done in recent years is on the level of a ‘crazy ex’. To a long-term enthusiast, none of this is really surprising if you’ve been there when Warcraft Adventures and Starcraft Ghost were cancelled, when Hellfire Expansion for Diablo 1 was an official product, when Diablo 2 had elites with immunities added, when Starcraft 1 allowed Dark Templar to be made into a buildable unit, when WoW decided to add LFR and let every casual see the expansion ending before progression raiders could even reach the end boss… the list is miles long.
The problem with trust is assuming that Blizzard was some unshakeable paragon of good that could do no wrong. If you followed Blizzard as long as I have, then you would have put them at arms length and just treated them as a company that is making fun games just like Nintendo, Sega, Sony or Microsoft would. There’s no guarantee that there will never be a bad game or bad decisions made by Blizzard (or any game company) just because they had a good track record. There was plenty wrong even back in the day, but we see history with rose tinted glasses because that’s how things just work. We don’t remember the days when Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft games were terribly balanced. We don’t remember the days when games got scrapped, and promises left unfulfilled. We choose not to remember when they allowed crap like Hellfire expansion or Starcraft 64 to exist. All of that tends to get excused because they’re not fresh in memories.
All of our personal biases contribute to our perception of truth, and what we value as ‘trust’ in the company. There is no right or wrong in deciding what we should trust, it’s only our own will and opinion when approaching such relationships. You can choose to distrust Blizzard based on the most recent events, but that shouldn’t be applied as though everyone else has that same relationship with Blizzard as a company, just as each individual has a different relationship with their own parents and the experiences can not be universally applied to any other individual.
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How about I narrow it down to why trust Blizzard enough to pre-purchase their games? Or why pre-purchase D2R in general?
Is it for some immediate cosmetic benefit in another game (I think when I made this thread at least there was none)?
Is it because SCR was a success, so a 50% success rate on remasters is enough to justify pre-purchasing their game (was SCR really a success? I mean, the game is no longer even supported with updates, right? At least reforged got an update recently and is generally considered a bad remaster based on review sites)?
You say Blizzard isn’t a static entity, but isn’t that obvious? Why would the chance of them making a good remaster (which might not even be that good of a chance given their current remaster track record) be justification enough to risk a pre-purchase?
What if pre-purchasing games actually hinders development when the company isn’t a small indie group but actually a very large company that doesn’t need a free loan (free loan being where you pre-purchase and then refund due to a disappointing release…if you can even refund D2R. I don’t know if you can or not)?
Doesn’t it seem like pre-purchasing hinders game success (e.g. Cyberpunk, Reforged, No Man’s Sky)? Aren’t these games that got a lot of money from pre-purchases but then failed to deliver on their promises? Doesn’t this teach companies that you can promise and then not deliver and make money?
Even if I accept (or forgive for another word) Blizzard’s imperfect nature and failing on Reforged, why pre-purchase D2R?
Why doesn’t Blizzard fix Reforged (or fix it faster if they are possibly fixing it)? If they don’t give enough of a crap to fix their mistakes, why should we pre-purchase their games? Or are you arguing the unconditional refund was their way of fixing the mistake? Admittedly it’s nice I got my money back but still lots of people basically gave Blizzard a free loan. That doesn’t get refunded.
And how does all of this relate to Santa Clause? I don’t personally think the situations are similar enough to make a good relation between the two.
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How about I narrow it down to why trust Blizzard enough to pre-purchase their games? Or why pre-purchase D2R in general?
Not everyone values Blizzard’s past records of success or failure the same way you or I would.
It’s that simple.
And to be fair, we all know this is being developed by a team that has a fairly good track record of remasters, and is sticking to the remaster format instead of being overly ambitious with rebalancing the game and adding an abundance of new features and content.
You say Blizzard isn’t a static entity, but isn’t that obvious? Why would the chance of them making a good remaster (which might not even be that good of a chance given their current remaster track record) be justification enough to risk a pre-purchase?
What does chance have to do with trust and any individuals choice to put their money on something they want?
Value is subjective. If someone thinks it’s worth pre-ordering, then that’s their own will to do so. Sometimes it’s not a matter of the ‘company’ but a matter of the person’s personal convenience of not having to sort out their credit card information and buying the game the day of, rather just having the game available and pre-downloaded to be able to play day 1.
Not everyone who preorders is a mega-fan who plays every Blizzard game and cares about the success/failure of their other products. Case in point - has anything that ever happened in Hearthstone ever influenced your decision to buy other Blizzard products? If it’s not on their radar, then why would it matter to them?
Doesn’t it seem like pre-purchasing hinders game success
That’s only relevant when considering worst case scenarios, and plays into pre-orders being a dubious practice of ‘bait and switch’ on the audience. I mean, we can say the same about Kickstarters if this is the case. Why would anyone put money into a Kickstarter when we heard so of so many horror stories behind so many projects? Well, not every kickstarter is going to be a horror story, and part of the pre-order culture is taking that risk either blindly or willingly.
Again, I can’t speak out for anyone who actually does pre-order, but I don’t think anyone should be since it’s all a free market and people are free to do what ever they want with their money. I think it’s a waste of money for someone to pay for theatre popcorn too, but I’m not gonna make a big deal out of all the people who eat popcorn in a movie theatre. Sometimes it’s out of comfort and convenience, sometimes it’s out of support of the vendor, sometimes it’s just blind ignorance. Either way, who are we to judge?
Why doesn’t Blizzard fix Reforged
There’s no progress right now because they completely cut off the Classic team back in October.
xhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-22/blizzard-absorbs-activision-studio-after-dismantling-classic-games-team
On Oct. 15, 2020, Blizzard informed members of Team 1 that it was reorganizing the entire division, according to the people who worked on Warcraft III: Reforged. In the following weeks, members of the team were given opportunities to interview for jobs elsewhere within Blizzard. Those who did not find positions in the company were gradually cut.
Blizzard has promised to continue fixing and updating Warcraft III: Reforged, although it will likely do it with a different outsourced team. A spokesperson wouldn’t confirm who is handling continued development of Warcraft III: Reforged but said “we are still committed to updates in support of the community.”
Maybe you didn’t read this before, but this news was out and about around Blizzcon.
I mean, this isn’t a guarantee of anything. I don’t even trust the words of the PR to be honest, but it’s the closest thing you’ll get to an official statement regarding the future of Reforged.
And to be honest, when you ask why trust Blizzard on D2R… they’ve already took the best step in the right direction by taking away Diablo 2 remaster from the Classics team that messed up Reforged and giving it to VV who is well established for making good remasters. That’s a huge step in the right direction, even if D2R may not be perfect. I think this should be regarded, and not as if Blizzard is doing nothing about how Team 1 completely failed. They did do something, they completely scrapped the Classic team and they got Vicarious Visions involved.
I think it is more about hoping that Blizzard gets back to its roots rather than about trusting the current entity as it is today.
Pre-ordering is legalised crime anyway, and yeah why do so many people still trust Blizzard? its because they are in a bubble, or straight up refusing to listen to certain facts on just how bad it is now. and even if they listen they somehow think old Blizzard is recoverable without understanding literally all of the people who made old Blizzard up and PHYSICALLY left.
Wake up people, THEY AREN’T THERE ANYMORE.
You really have to turn this into a 112 page/message long discussion where some people who i consider to be pretty much acting like contracted Blizzard shills come in and open their 500 page book of stupidity. justifying legalised crime LOL.
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SPOILED KID ALERT!
now genius who defines himself as a “veteran” playing just since 2010 (let me guess, dota when all the pros already left?), tell me…
how are you supposed to play custom games anymore when ALMOST ALL GAMES have at least 1 disconnection and suffer from 200 ping disease?
Please, tell us, most of us have been here since the release of this game, 8 years before you, and we don’t hate the game, we hate all the stupid changes you are supporting…
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Have you considered that maybe… just maybe that the regional servers have… foreign people? If you’re in the states and you have 200 ping with any one person in the states, then you yourself have a problem, if you’re in the states and have 200 ping with someone in europe which by the way is a very high possibility, then its an issue of distance.
Also DOTA sucks, also far from a spoiled kid. Disconnection in a peer to peer designed game? It happens, move on.
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More like Cancel Culture Alert when you’re saying people with different opinions don’t have real opinions. We have every right to criticize the bad, consider it more substantial than any good changes, give Blizzard the message and ask them to change it. Especially when most of the bad is stuff that was removed, made worse or potentially even game breaking/bugged.
Who said most of the changes were good anyway? It’s possible to not even like the new graphics, which is the main thing you’d pay for over the original game and maybe the best argument there is for a “good” change. Many people play with the old graphics. So it’s actually possible that you could consider most or even all the changes to be bad. That would indicate more negative than positive changes, meaning there were more positives before it was changed. Logically that would usually mean you don’t think the positives were worth it and that you’d prefer it without the changes.
So what if you don’t even want to buy Reforged or use the new graphics? Assuming your hardware could support the original game before Reforged, should you still have to upgrade it to keep playing a game that came out in 2002/2003 because of a remaster that you don’t even want? Or have to download many gigabytes of graphics that you wont and can’t even use?
Clans, profiles and custom campaigns were definitely used and many people still used/liked them. Profiles were the way to see your total wins/losses and for each race and to choose an icon you unlocked. Winning enough tournaments unlocked additional icons for this. But not only did Blizzard take away all earned icons, they took away all previous wins/losses too. Granted they are working on (eventually) making new profiles and stats, but any previous wins/losses and earned icons players had will surely be lost.
Also, having an in-game social platform is arguably more convenient than a third party social platform (and traditional and customary). Why should we need a 3rd party social platform for a game that had one? When logging in you’d be placed in your clan channel automatically, rather than a random chat channel for your region. On top of the social aspects, clans also provided a way for a group of people to moderate an in-game chat channel. People could also be promoted or demoted to game-themed unit ranks within a clan.
The point about disconnection was that it may happen more frequently because of all the changes they did under the hood. As for ping, that may be true but they made it worse for ladder/melee game matchmaking when they made it global instead of just your chosen server. So now for matchmaking at least, you’re even more likely than before to play with someone far away and get a higher ping.
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What’s baffling to me is that Conan the Barbarian is not in Diablo!!! “…Crom, strong in his mountain!”
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No one said that you can’t criticize the bad, but saying the game is bad by ignoring the good in the game is inherently an invalid opinion.
Going back to Fallout 76, people hated the game for reasons that youtubers stated 500 times fold, but these are the same people who can’t form a proper opinion because they ignored the good in the game, anyone with an IQ equivalent to the human average would know there’s good to the game and it shouldn’t be ignored.
Tldr: The game isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, which is why you cannot and should not trust people with less than or no time at all with the game.
The way Warcraft 3 was designed was to make it so both classic and reforged graphics could play together, that and it will prevent having to download the extra gigs if someone buys reforged.
Upgrading your PC inherently opens up your game choices. Warcraft 3 shouldn’t be the only game players play.
With the population at the time, clans were less used than the automated tournament system. Why use clans when you have discord? At least you can strategize vocally in discord than a clan channel in game which wasn’t really used in the last 2 - 3 years.
I never said much about custom campaigns, that was definitely used a fair amount in the past few years, but that’s besides the point. Inherently features get cut all the time in the game industry, games get shut down all the time, its all based on popularity in the current moment, that is how businesses survive and thrive.
Profiles, most people at the current moment before reforged released were basic profiles. Why keep it when most people were basic profiles?
Disconnections in a peer to peer game environment is an inherent issue that can’t be resolved without pretty much redesigning the entire game to work on a server basis, which means Blizzard would have to quite literally make servers for every single map available, which they won’t.
For someone who played the original game, it’s very possible that they might consider very few of the changes to be good, or even none. There are people who just want the original back with the ability to play on battle.net again.
You might say that there’s other stuff that wasn’t changed and is still good, but that stuff was already in the original game. That stuff is irrelevant when you’re judging it by comparing it to the original game. That’s what most people making complaints or saying the game is bad are probably doing. You might try to say that’s not a full, fair evaluation of the game. But the whole reason for a remaster, and to buy or play it if you have the original game, is for changes that are supposed to be good or upgrades.
it will prevent having to download the extra gigs if someone buys reforged? What? The point was the new graphics (and yes most of those gigs were the new graphics) take up wasted space for people who didn’t buy reforged. You have to download the extra gigs for reforged graphics to play on battle.net whether you bought reforged or not. If you buy reforged digitally then you download them when you first buy and install it. If you don’t buy it but have the original game, then you have to download them when updating your game to version 1.30 or higher, but you can’t access them in-game. When Reforged first came out, version 1.30 and all its gigs were actually downloaded and installed automatically for most people with a recent version of the game, which caused some backlash.
If the point was for classic and reforged graphics to play together, doesn’t it seem like part of the point of doing that would be so people with computers that could run the original game, but not reforged, could still play with people that are using reforged? Seems like a missed opportunity. Instead they break compatibility with older computers that could run the original game.
One purpose of Remasters is to improve compatibility (for newer systems). But that doesn’t mean you should break compatibility of the classic game with older systems, or make them download remastered graphics that they don’t have access to in-game. While newer PCs can play more newer games, that’s besides the point and has some potential drawbacks anyway. Aside from the money, effort to set up and transfer things over, newer PCs may have problems running older games that were designed for older computers. Besides if someone just wants to play Warcraft 3 and maybe other older games on an older computer than can run them, then what’s wrong with that?
The population did decrease over time yes (all the buggy patches they did to get ready for reforged probably didn’t help), so clans became less useful. But you’d think Blizzard was expecting more people would come back after reforged released. A lot of veterans would probably remember clans and might want to be in one again, as well as new players (and maybe automated tournaments for that matter). It’s also true that discord and other 3rd party social platforms allow voice chat, something the game never had. But honestly I was fine with typing and not hearing everyone’s voices, and as you pointed out you could make at least an initial strategy in clan or private channels before the game started. If enough people wanted a voice chat option though, they could have added it.
You could still see wins/losses that you and others had (and could have kept). Also there was at least a few people with different icons than a peon, and a few people with top icons who logged in occasionally just so their account and record wouldn’t get deleted. I’m sure they would have liked to keep their icons to show off as a badge of pride. Most people may not have wrote stuff in their profile, but again you’d think Blizzard was expecting more people would come back after reforged released and that use might’ve increased again.
They actually made a whole post about how they were working to bring back profiles, so either they wanted to upgrade them, or enough people complained about them being removed to change their minds but they still want to upgrade them. Either way though, you’d think they could bring the old profiles back in the meantime.
If it’s actually disconnections and not crashes or bugs that cause disconnections, then I guess. But something they did when implementing “Battle.net 2.0” might have made disconnections worse, even if it can’t really be fixed. Servers for every map of course sounds unlikely, but it actually seems somewhat plausible just for matchmaking/ladder games, since the amount of maps in the selection at one time is relatively minimal and manageable. Sure there are map rotations, but those could just be added or swapped when it’s time to rotate them in.
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you don’t even know how the game works now… just stay silent please…