What is wrong with W3R?

General Discussion
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Here are my 2cents to W3R

-Wrong engine
I don’t understand why you guys would decide to let People who own the Original WC3 to play with the ones who own Reforged, this only limits yourself. As a huge fan of the original i have to say that this is the worst decision you could have made. If you wanna play the Original with your friends, fine do it on the original client. If you wanna play the new version, then you should just play the new version. Done… Using an almost 20 year old engine for a game that comes out in (hopefully not) 2019? Can’t be the only one who thinks this way.

-Kinda halfbaked rework
The Textures and models are so and so… some look incredible nice, others look like they come straight out of a nightmare, i don’t think i am alone with my oppinion when i say that most of the faces in the games just give you goosebumps, they don’t look real at all. But not in the good way, the Original had a nice comic look to it, while Reforged tries to be more realistic but fails completely. If you don’t know what i am talking about, look at the 3D unit portraits the next time you pick something like a Paladin, or Archemage (worst one so far is female DK imo).

-Blizzcon demo vs. what we have now
The Blizzcon demo looked so insanely awesome, then you get beta access and it looks like a decent WC3 mod, which you shouldn’t have to pay money for. The Blizzcon Demo had these neat new 3D Unit Models instead of the 3D unit portraits which i personally really liked, overall it looked way more polished a year ago then it is now. Its like someone lost all the files from that build and you tried to fix that sh*t but lost all your will in the process.

-Custom Games
I absolutely hope that the Game Browser we got now for Custom Games is just a placeholder. Because nothing was worse than the Warcraft 3 Custom Game Browser. You have the most perfect Arcade Menu in Starcraft 2, i really hope you will use that one for the Warcraft 3 Reforged release. The struggle we had to find a game back in the days was real… You and 4 others wanna play a fun map, first you have to scroll over and over through the Browser till you find the map that you wanna play. Then you have to hope that there are enough spots left for you and your 4 Friends, then you have to tell your friends that you find it, but it has a really weird name so either you can type it fast enough to your friends before the free spots are gone or they have to somehow find it on their own. While Starcraft 2 is just, inviting your friends to your party, the party leader goes to Arcade selects the Map that you want from the Browser, and looks for a Lobby that has enough spots left and if not it just creates a new one. Absolutely perfect easy and foolproof.

-FPS
What is up with that? I got a pretty decent computer, i7 6700k, 32GB ram, game on an SSD and a GTX1080… yet i rarely get more than 60FPS and no stutters or image freezes. The Main Menu looks like its locked on 20FPS

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I suspect at least part of the reason for them wanting cross play is that it gives them an excuse to stop supporting the old battle net without causing outrage in the community. They probably don’t want to have to continue paying to support the old servers when it makes them no money.

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The question is, why would u split the playerbase? This doesnt make any sense to me. I mean u can play with the “Original WC3” anyway if u want to.

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You won’t be able to play the original WC3 once reforged is out. If I understand correctly the original game will switch to using the reforged launcher, servers and accounts system. People who own the original will, in effect, also be playing reforged but with the new graphics disabled.

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Indeed.

Separating play would be a very bad move. Splitting the player base would lead to far more difficult/lengthy match finding. Maybe even enough to drive some players away, only exacerbating the issue.

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Well first of all its not just about respecting the ppl who originally bought WC3, but have no interest in prettier graphics to also allow them to play the original game online with others. Secondly and MORE IMPORTANTLY, the decision why they decided to hold on to the original game engine and build improved visuals on top of it were the custom games…They wanted each and every custom game that has been created over all these years to be playable just as they are (as long as they used the original game assets and not some outside mods) to be playable in Reforged AT LAUNCH…if they had changed game engine, then that would not have been possible, the WC3 community would have had to create all those custom game maps again from scratch and while ofc many of the most popular maps would have, there would have been likely many (from my old favorites atleast) that would not have been remade by the community.

Also let me remind you that Warcraft III: Reforged is HARDLY the first remaster/remake (whatever you want to call it) that has used the original game engine as the base on build the remade/improved visuals on top of it. Halo and Halo 2 Anniversary are perhaps best example of this where you could simply switch between the original and Anniversary visuals on the fly while you were playing…and I saw no one complaining back then, even though everyone knew that if those games had been remade with entirely new game engine, they could have looked that much better.

Honestly as far as the graphics/visuals are concerned I personally have no complaints about it, especially after the most recent patch that improved lighting and lots of the textures that still looked bit low quality. For sure the one thing that still needs to be improved are the 3D character portraits and especially their animations, but its clear that much of them are not final yet and they have been slowly adding more animation to them during the beta.

And I dont really get the idea where you think that Reforged is trying to look “realistic”…for sure I get that compared to the extreme detailed unit models, you complain that the environments/terrain still look too cartoonish/too colorful, but I honestly dont have a problem with it. I would not want at any point Reforged to look “realistic” as those who praise the UE4 engine demo that one guy has made seem to want. Thats not just Warcraft’s style at all. Simply put Im quite happy how Reforged is looking and that its clearly improvement over the original game in terms of visuals, but you can still clearly tell that this is Warcraft III and WC3 made with Starcraft II or UE4 engine for example.

As for Custom games and their browser, im pretty sure Blizzard did promise proper filter options/better browser so that you can much more easily select between different kinds of custom games, so that you can find all TD games from one section, all DOTA/MOBA variants from one section, survival games from one section and so on. They only just added custom games to be played in beta, so this indeed should only be placeholder for the moment.

As for FPS I agree that it should be improved, I also still get huge framedrops every now, but Im confident they are able to figure that one out.

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I absolutely don’t want Warcraft to look Realistic at all, the complete opposite is the case, i adore the “comic” look of it, the cartoony figures and proportions here and there, but its not because the models look more detailed, its because they are clearly meant to be way more realistic than before, the perfetct example for that would be the Human Builder. Put the model of the original right next to the reforged one and you will immediately see that the characteristics of it are completely gone, and also their animations. The whole “personality” of it is gone and its not just that one, also the Murlocs… they were kinda cute before and now most of them look like Clive Barker designed them. And you have to admit, the Murloc Plaguebearer … holy hell that thing is terrifying looking.

And why it bothers me so much with the game engine, i personally love to play Maps like Stronghold, but knowing the engine is not able to run that many unit entities at once and will struggle the exact same way the old one did just … idk really bothers me. As of now the Reforged Beta made me worry more than anticipating it. And please don’t think i am a hater i am a HUGE Warcraft Fan in all its adaptations but that doesn’t keep me away from saying that so far the Rework of Warcraft 3 isn’t that good. They got a bunch of cool ideas, like giving each Lore Character their own Model instead of reusing the same over and over. But there are so many things they just refuse to do, like the option to select more than 12 Units at once (Arcade mode kinda an absolute must have), The Camera is waaaaay to close. A bunch of more useful UI tips and tricks. A really good rework is Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition, it is the exact same game than before, just … better in any way, graphics more up to date, useful new ideas and QoL changes. Yet you can’t play it with people who only own Age of Empires 2 or the 2013 Version of it. And no one complains about it. And thinking of it, having the ability to play together with people who own Warcraft 3 Original, means there won’t be coming any update/addons for Warcraft 3 Reforged that adds to the Game. Because that would mean they would also have to release it for the Original which will never happen.

On one side i can totally understand that they don’t want to divide the playerbase in 2, but i said it before, the game itself is almost 20 years old by now. If you still play Warcraft 3 Original to this day, you should be absolutely willing to pay for Reforged.

And what i don’t get at all is, a huge majority of their Feedback is the one that comes from Pro Players… i love to watch Grubby playing Warcraft 3, but asking Pro Players is stupid at best. They are so extremely used to the Original that almost everything new gets bashed by them. 95% of the playerbase is not and never will be professional.

All the cut content from the Campaign they promised or Editor. I mean its all over this forum, Reforged so far what they delivered is not good. It is just not worth the money they ask for it.

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porting it to a new engine would have taken years, because blizzard needs to develop a new engine each time. they could have done it however and then ported all of the assets over and then replaced the old client entirely with a new one.

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Ye and like said they would have never put that much time or resources to fully remake WC3…also one thing that Reforged team actually said right away that trying to make the gameplay feel exactly the same with entirely new engine would be extremely hard, especially in multiplayer where players, especially pro players could easily spot differences in how the units move and so on.

And it was clear from beginning Reforged was never meant to touch the gameplay of WC3, thats something they were clear from beginning they wanted to remain the same as in original game.

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Rather would i have gotten a decent rework with all the promised features of it in 1-2 years than this with all its cut content

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FYI, engines can be updated. Like they did for this one.

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I am aware that Engines can be updated, but only to a certain point till it gets almost impossible or way too hard to develop it further than it already is. Looking at you WoW

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You can’t split the comunity if you let only reforged On

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Are you out of your mind? Wc3 custom game browser is a nighmare yes, but starcraft 2 was hell on earth. It was death to custom games by design. Custom games need to be able to compete against each other equally, while even the most unknown map must have a chance to gather up a full lobby. SCII browser would only show you the few most played maps and that killed the cat.
Death of any creativity, any variety. Just look at the user statistics a few months after it’s custom market release.
Sc II was google page 2, tumbleweeds rolling around.
(talking about the standard user that just quick browses stuff)

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Okay sure yea, i agree on that argument that you barely had a chance to get news map into the pool.
But Warcraft 3 was even worse than that.
How many times you got kicked out of lobbies because you had to download the map, just because you never played them before.

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Not arguing against you on the wc3 side. It was pretty messy yes and lacked alot of features. But it only sucked individually. Go online now and see how vivid it is (for a 15year old game) and log into scII and compare them.
The issue you stated can and was already easily fixed. when you click a map right now it will Download first, then seat you in Lobby. Noone knows you are noob atm:)
Anonymous account generation is fixed aswell. I hope this will lower the leaver problem.

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Well i guess a mix of both would be pretty nice. Whatever the state of the browser as of right now, is a complete mess.

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The main menu isn’t locked to 20fps, it’s a web based UI. You are currently playing literally via web browser and I hope that they do not intend to ship the game with this.

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Holy hell, are you for real? You got to be joking what developer in their right mind would think thats a good idea…

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Key thanks god you put the “compatibility problem” at the beginning so I don’t have to take you seriously and read all. Thanks.

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