Warcraft III Lore retconning to match WoW is a terrible idea


#261

So are you just adamantly against games with character customization?


#262

I think that’s an interesting concept, definitely worth exploring. Undead Kael was always something I thought was going to be a thing when they showed the San’layn concept in Wrath. I mean, they even kinda look like him, I thought thats what they were going to do when the model was originally datamined.

As for Orcs it really depends on what direction you’d want them to go in. I always find them to be the least creative since so much of their culture is based on Orc/Jungle Troll/Tauren, and not expansive beyond that. In that respect, I always found the Dark Horde more interesting, since they’re willing to expand out and ‘enslave’ other races.

If you want a more traditional Horde, I think since War3 already has an Outland connection, you could bring in Mok’nathal and Mag’har units. It may be possible to segregate the various clans and give them the WoD treatment, sorta how Cata and BFA are differentiating the Human Nations in physical form. So like a Shattered Hand Brute, a Bleeding Hollow Scryer, a Warsong Commander, a Blackrock Overlord, etc. They would have whatever physical attributes that their clan is known for. Dark skin, missing limbs/eyes, tattooes, etc.


#263

Well, you did just learn that there is lore in WoW so we don’t blame you for not understanding how stories work.


#264

Well it has been six months since this thread was created and still gets a lot of discussion. I stick to the idea that there a lot of things that could be rescued from Warcraft lore post WoW, what truly injured it was the MMO mechanics, like the two factions thing and the raids. Though they have developed a lot in their storytelling since Vanilla, they have run out of interesting characters or settings, which till the end of TFT they had plenty.

Reforged should get its DLC Campaigns that explore Pre-TFT and Post-TFT lore, there is a lot of potential there, done right they could revive the RTS warcraft games. War of the Ancients, First War, Second War, War of the Shifting Sands, Troll Wars, Satyr Wars, War of the Spider, just to name some from the past, and some neat WoW stories with a new fresh RTS setting that could help reboot the franchise or maybe just retconn some past events and bring some new characters for an utopic Warcraft IV against some big enemy, like the Old Gods, whom I allways thought were really misused in the MMO, big all corrupting entities shouldn’t be dealt with in a 40 people raid.


#265

Couldn’t agree more! I hope they don’t change things to match WoW. It’s the source material & should take precedence over WoW. Added to that, i hope they don’t change the funny jokes the units etc. make when you click them like they did with the original jokes in WoW. I prefer if things stick to the original.


#266

Warcraft 1-3 lore was great.
WOW lore was never great. It just borrowed off the momentum.
And it only took a couple years after WotLK for WOW lore to turn to complete trash.


#267

There were no Night Elf units in the WC2 tech tree either. You’re expecting WC4 to be akin to SC2, but SC2 pushed away both purists and changers. WC4 should be closer to WC3 in that it’s completely different.

Blood Elves in the Horde would be stupid though.

We got spaceships in TBC. See, for the life of me I do not understand this fetishization of vanilla-WotLK. I am an independently-minded and edgy person, and I believe that WoW lore was at its peak in Cata-MoP, with TBC and WotLK being the mutilation of WC3.

TBC: Blood Elves on the Horde, spaceships, Kael’thas going full black pill.
WotLK: Dalaran rebuilt trumps the demons-only-die-in-the-Nether reveal as the biggest dump on WC3 lore of all time but… nobody seems to care about flying Dalaran in the slightest!

But yeah, go on and tell me how the Gilneas Worgen storyline, or the destruction of Southshore, or the militarization of Theramore, or the Sunreaver incident were “bad lore”.


#268

Flying Dalaran makes sense for a city of Mages. It’s a common trope in the fantasy genre. Personally, I love the change to Dalaran in Wrath, it satisfied everything I wanted out of a new staging area to fight the Scourge.

Legion’s demon space ships were a bit of a stretch. Even TBC was a bit too sci-fi for my tastes.


#269

I agree. But I’m talking about not flying cities but rebuilt Dalaran. The climax of The Path of the Damned was the summoning of Archimonde who then proceeded to punish humanity for their vain use of Demonic fire (fel was corrupted Arcane in 2002).

That punishment proves out cheap when the Magi go and lolrebuild said city. I’m not against the remnants of the Kirin Tor being a thing - that’s the whole point of Theramore (and untouched Stormwind). But it cheapens Archimonde far more than the revivability of said Archimonde.

To be precise, those are dimensional ships. I like to think of them as reversed portals - they probably change the space around them, like a hypothetical gravity engine.

P.S. Completely off topic, but I wonder whether there is any point to Orc Warlocks’ Fire Bolts being orange. Should they be changed to green in Reforged? Honestly, either one works. I prefer having them separate - felgreen for the really powerful stuff such as Meta, Verdant Spheres or Infernals. But at the same time, that orange looks like the bland Archmage’s fireball…

Inb4 the purists calling me a bastard dwarf eunuch a WoW fanboy. But I would love to hear their screams when Warlocks do cast green bolts in Black RnR, too! and the last two missions of the Orc campaign!


#270

That the word I’ve been looking for. This resurrections and rebuilds are not made in favor of charecters/cities. Because next they kill something I’ll go like “I don’t mind, they are probalby going to get it back on some point”. Also, if mages can build cities with magic why does anyone would have actuall workers, when mages can do staff quicker and more efficient. Can’t wait to see those mages at work on a lumber mill, Blizzard.

here is the answer. Fire is red-orange-yellow, fell is green. But anyway, if i rememer it correctly back in a day warlocks were not so centered around fell and thinks were not so catigorized like in WoW, but were some kind of shadowy dark magic dudes warshiping demons. So it should be fell(fell-fire) bolt then. But as you have also said

I prefer everything to stay as close to original as possible.


#271

But Rommath rebuilt [half of] Silvermoon almost overnight! With demonic magic and the power of friendship!

Not really, mate.

Dalektharu il dask daku - who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Destruction_of_Dalaran_(WC3_Undead)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Eredun

Actually, no. Warlock magic is always fel, regardless whether it’s orange or green. Even though theoretically, nothing stops a former mage from invoking fire with the Arcane.

With that attitude, we still would have had slavery and manned missions to the Moon.


#272

Why would you not just say “I’m stupid, have done zero research, have zero experience, but still I would like to cry like the little girl I am”? It would have been the perfect TL;DR.


#273

Yeah, just read WoWPedia for a start to get the general picture about the story in each expansion. And keep in mind that it doesn’t include all the juicy details - especially true for vanilla, TBC, Legion and BfA.

Vanilla Kel’Thuzad - connected to C’Thun, the fight of the Scarlet Crusade, the Ashbringer.

TBC Illidan - his fight with A’dal, his split with Kael’thas, the demon hunters that went insane from the training, Akama’s duplicity.

Legion - the Titan lore, Sargeras lore, Argus lore, Gul’dan, Alleria, Xe’ra, Illidan’s retrospective.

BfA - how it is not MoP 2.0, how Sylvanas is a cutie, how the Knaifu is a cutie, how N’Zoth is not tentacles, how Calia Menethil is a Light-infused zombie, watch Pyromancer.


#274

Further detail is not the same as retconning nor is it evidence that they are going to change the story in the remastered… And BFA regardless of how much it sucks it is definitely not MoP 2.0, that statement literally makes you sound like the people that were dumb enough to claim MoP was Kung Fu Panda…


#275

I literally stated “how BfA is not MoP 2.0” - by detailing the differences, one gains more intimate knowledge about the subject.


#276

And BFA regardless of how much it sucks it is definitely not MoP 2.0

But i mean, it is, it’s literaly the same exact pattern, everything is the same i don’t see how you can say that and being serious.


#277

Yeah, because Garrosh was totally working with Death against Eonar’s Hope and not going lolcorrupted by a piece of Old God meat. Very similar. Just like he flew away when the rioters got to the gates of Orgrimmar.


#278

Ok… this is redicoulus reply…

I will ask you one question only: what good and advanced role did WoW give to us?

They got entire fanbase from having THE most successful game ever (wc3) which lore was preety epic, same as SC, and the main question is… what did Blizzard do with that?
Answer is: nothing… they made millions to make the game be enjoyable to little kids and adventurers, looting most epic characters in WC3 Universe dying to random 5 or 10 or 25 “champions”.

I have played every single expansion of WoW since it’s release, mostly because it’s time consuming and somewhat fun, however, lore wise - IT SUCKS.

I know it’s 2019 and most of the people are not allowed to say that something sucks, but well… Sorry boys, WoW was the mutilation of an epic story which all of us hoped to become a movie or even a tv show (like LotR since amazon sponsored it).

WoW had the potential of making a fun game, which will bring billions to the company, enjoyable, fun and competitive… It was supposed to be a game that will develop new stories and expand the universe.

Do none of you ever wanna find why Arthas never came home immediately after killing Mal Ganis? Or why he didn’t fuze with Lich King as soon as that happened, but rather wandered trough northrend for God knows how much time, only to come home, kill his father, and THEN go on a quest to Northrend to fuze with Lich King?

So many good characters were ignored in WoW: Rexxar, Thrall, Jaina (up until recently), Maiev, Lady Vashj, Mal fu*king Furion Stormrage, Illidan Stormrage… All these hell of a powerful characters were just butchered by being AFK in their fortresses and giving out loot to players.

Most of the WoW players did grow up on WC3, only because it was preety awesome and brave of what they did…

Very similar to Game Of Thrones, they gave you character you know, made you love him and cheer for him, and then killed him off (Ned Freakin Stark).

Those kind of scenes sky rocketed this TV show into the skies, same as Red Wedding etc.

Same thing happened with WC3: Wiping out the entire Kingdom of Humans of Lordaeron, Killing of Cenarius the freakin Demigod… etc

So i am preety sure, if they wanna add new missions or make wc4,
stay freakin away from WoW lore if you want it to succeed…

Mic out


#279

Ik this is late but sylvanas is a traitor.


#280

What is this even supposed to mean? The lore in WoW can be put in three categories:
1 ) vanilla - immense world building, WC3 fans happy;
2 ) TBC/WotLK - what you describe;
3 ) Cata onwards - an utterly different beast.

WotLK ended in 2010. Your info is 9 years outdated.

I would actually enjoy talking to you if you didn’t bury me in stereotypes. For example, all the cosmic intrigues of the Titans, Eonar, Old Gods, Sargeras, Death, Lich King… The first idea that comes to mind is that it’s not pre-WoW in essence.

Pre-WoW was about power and geopolitics.
WoW is about philosophy and morality.

The funny thing is that it matches my lifepath - I was all into geopolitics as a kid, but now it seems so insignificant to me - how can you fight if everyone around you is rotten? How can a nation fight if its citizens have been snatched by a memetic disease?

That’s why I consider LotV incredibly deep and philosophic. With the big dark god Amon trying to consume all. They say it’s cheesy. I say it’s literally Deschner.