Warcraft III Lore retconning to match WoW is a terrible idea


#1

I’ve never got into WoW but from what I’ve heard, its handled WC3’s lore terribly. This isn’t surprising since an MMO is a bad medium to tell a story. I can’t be the only one who dislikes all the cool WC3 villains dying in anonymous 25 on 1 to random plebs.

imagine if Return of the Jedi was released as a monthly subscription MMO and in it, Darth Vader canonically dies when jumped by 25 random rebels with stupid names. I wouldn’t want them going back and changing the previous films to match this new crappy canon.

I propose that WoW’s continuity is kept separate to WC3s. This will be a much better starting point going forward towards a potential WC4 (which should be a direct squeal to WC3, ignoring WoW).

Mod Edit: Removed inappropriate language.


#2

I don’t see why WoW lore should take precedence when Warcraft III came first and has a better story. They should retcon WoW to fit Warcraft III reforged ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).


#3

Well as discussed in numerous other threads, this is what all of us Warcraft RTS fans would want. However its Blizzard’s lore, so they can do whatever they see fit with it. To ease your fears however, they’ve said that the changes they are going to make are fairly minor, just add few voice lines here and there for the characters and as you might have seen in the Blizzcon demo, the maps themselves are going to be in some extent to be modified to resemble the landscapes seen in World of Warcraft.

If they just keep it to this and offer us old fans the original voice acting with new visuals (as they have apparently already promised), then there shouldnt be too much to worry about.

However as Ive said before its very nice to see most of us Warcraft III/RTS fans stay united on the thought that should Blizzard ever consider Warcraft IV, its story should ignore what has been done in WoW and just go on its own way where it left off in The Frozen Throne :slight_smile:

If Blizzard ever makes announcement of Warcraft IV (without any hints about story) then we RTS fans must be vocal about what we want from the story, that we want it one way or another to continue where The Frozen Throne ended. Ofcourse we can already be vocal about it, and especially after Warcraft III: Reforged is launched to be vocal that we would want more Warcraft in RTS form and that what we would like to see in terms of story and lore

I talked about this so many years ago in YT and other forums, yet back then no-one really supported that idea, so Im glad to see now that there are still plenty of us old Warcraft III fans who are more or less united on this idea.

On that note, I recommend listening to what the senior producer of Reforged is saying about listening to fans and so forth:

So just keep on giving the feedback and let guys at Blizzard know what we all think :slight_smile:


#4

I don’t know why people are so adamant that there should be a Warcraft 4 retconning WoW. I’m not a fan of WoW, but I accept that what’s done is done, Blizzard has little to gain for simply scrapping everything it’s been doing since 2004.

As for retconning Warcraft III, from what I understand they’re not changing the story, simply looking at WoW as a reference to create a consistent environment for some of the locations. Consistency in the world is fine, and isn’t something I’m going to worry too much about, as long as the missions and story is the same.

I agree that WoW mishandled the lore, and that a lot of the issues stem from the structure of MMORPGs (Faceless, nameless heroes kill Illidan, Arthas, Deathwing, Kil’jaeden, ect.). If they were to create a Warcraft IV, it would either be a new IP, a new world, or perhaps even a prequel of sorts. WoW is here, and sadly for us, it’s here to stay.


#5

I disagree, they gain a lot of creative freedom not being shackled to WoW . Stuff like being forced to the two faction system is pretty restrictive.


#6

Exactly…Warcraft IV could potentially follow much the same events as WoW, I could be cool with that, but they would be free to do thigns with story they would have NEVER been able to do in World of Warcraft…this includes wiping out entire factions, like Alliance of Lordaeron in Warcraft III.

Back in day when WOTLK was coming out I created this alternative storyline as example that could have never been done in WoW, atleast at that time:

“Arthas/Lich King invades Azeroth in full force, wiping out cities like Orgrimmar and Stormwind, forcing desperate survivors to fall back in Outland…here they meet Illidan Stormrage, and the rest of the Naga and Blood Elves who survived. Illidan, who made deal with Kil’jaeden sees this as his one final opportunity to wipe out Lich King and get revenge on Arthas agrees to help out the refugees, but there are some servere internal conflicts in this new alliance between Blood Elves and Night Elves for example that threatned to collapse the whole effort to wipe out Lich King in inner fighting. Sylvanas and her Forskaken also plot the destruction of mortal races alongside with wiping out Arthas” (just like she did in Wrath).

And that would have been the whole dream setting/starting of Warcraft IV, if it ever continued where Warcraft 3 TFT ended…you see how Warcraft IV could work perfectly when using some elements that were there in World of Warcraft, just expand them on ways that were never possible to do in MMO game.

The relationships between different factions and races in Warcraft IV could be so more complex and there could be so much more conflict between them, even some breaking up entirely, that would never be possible in World of Warcraft, where the structure of the game demands that for example Forsaken will forever be part of the Horde, despite everything they and Sylvanas have done over the years.


#7

People are not demanding a Warcraft 4 that retcons the MMO (though we wouldn’t mind if that happened) as much as saying “Warcraft 3 > WoW”, or “I’d rather have the original storyline”.

Note that some parts of the 2005 WoW has already been retconned. For example, the comics say that Varian Wrynn was the one who killed Onyxia, even though Onyxia was a Classic boss and Varian did not return until Wrath of the Lich King. I think Chronicles retconned some WoW lore as well.

Yet an other reason that I don’t want the Warcraft 3 story to be changed: no point in tying it to a WoW story that might itself be retconned in the next few years.


#8

Ideally Reforged creates its own canon with influences from WoW to bridge the series, but not beholden to it.

15+ yr spoiler example, Muradin. I don’t think his scenes in War3 should change to reflect anything seen in WoW. The scene serves a purpose in the story of Warcraft 3, so it should be kept pure.

Then there’s Kael’thas and the Blood Elves’ green eyes, which is IMO a good retcon that WoW provided. I think it’s very iconic to them and helps separate them from the High Elves that did not follow Kael’s path. This should be something that I think should be represented in Warcraft 3’s campaign, perhaps even expanded upon with an in game cutscene to show us how far the Blood Elves have pushed themselves. If done right, this could be a good retcon.


#9

They had to remove alot of Warcrafts mature theme to fit the mmo genre, that is why its worse. If you read the “Warcraft Legends” pocket books you will understand just how much they removed. The goblins and certain quotes where enough comedy reliefs in WC3, but alot of WoW’s lore is aimed towards children and family friendly content. Otherwise Warcraft was always about War, horrible wars with deaths, blood, gore. Something that got me into it in the first place.

Its kinda why alot of people where unhappy about Diablo 3 too. If you compare the old games to the new ones you will notice just how much have changed.


#10

I agree in that WCIII is superior by far to WoW, but my point is that no one likes retcons, they only caste the world into a mud of thick confusion. A Warcraft IV retconning WoW will only polarize people who like WoW and those who like the classic.

If they do retcon WoW with a WCIV, I’d be down with it too (Provided it’s done well) but I merely state caution when calling for such things.

Now to emphasize my point with Warcraft III changing a few things, I don’t want dialogue or story changed, but restructuring the maps to make things like, in the case of the demo, Stratholme to have a consistency with WoW, or invading Quel’Thalas from the south. These kind of changes can improve the world and make it feel more real and in depth for those who’ve played through the franchise as a whole. Creating a consistent world is not a bad approach for a franchise like Warcraft.


#11

Well, they did announce WoW classic, so maybe they can just redo WoW’s story from there.

Seriously though, bringing loads of characters back to life from such a great campaign is not only wrong, but it shows how crap the storytelling in WoW must have been to feel the need to do this.


#12

I agree. I’ve played WoW and the storyline is so convoluted it makes your head ache.


#13

Or perhaps it would just be their way to give Warcraft III fans what we really want?

Tbh because it would be such drastic decision, Ive always said that as compromise they could take the base event of World of Warcraft and use them as basis for Warcraft IV’s story, something that doesnt necessarily change what happened, just tells them different way…like what I suggested on my previous post as the alternative storyline for WOTLK/TBC that would be more fitted for RTS game and expand on the story in ways that were never possible in MMO form.

In World of Warcraft they had to make the story fit the MMO form, in Warcraft IV they should at very least recap the events of WoW for us who never played the MMO and do so in way that works in RTS form and I think that might even be something that even WoW players could appreciate…this wouldnt be so much different from the approach that they took in Warcraft movie, where things happened differently than they did in original lore, but end results were much the same…although ofc in case of WC IV potentially re-telling WoW’s storyline, I wish the end result would be better than in Warcraft movie :smiley:


#14

For the fun of it, I’ll list the things that drive me the most crazy about WoW.

  • Limited to two factions. It’s not too bad in concept, but the issue is with some of the races loyalty. The Blood Elves, Night Elves, and definitely Forsaken should not be as loyal to the Horde or Alliance (Trolls and Elves fighting side by side, WHAT?)
  • The best characters from Warcraft III being turned into and killed off as big badguys, leaving the less interesting characters left.
  • Sylvanas being warchief of the Horde???
  • Warlords of Draenor (I get it, they wanted to bring back Warcarft II characters, but seriously, make a prequel or something)
  • Bringing back dead characters because they can’t come up with new ones. i.e. Malganis, Balnazzar, Cho’gall, Illidan, ect.

#15

Its not really a retcon if you make WoW an alternative universe. As it is WoW make WC4 impossible from a narrative standpoint (unless you make it a prequel or set in the distant future).


#16

As it stands, they should just ignore WoW or atleast keep key moments such as Illidan being wounded or Arthas dying, something that connects to WC3. Not everyone have interest in the mmo genre and most would be confused as to what is going on.


#17

The story and dialogue should remain the same as it was in Warcraft 3. If they wish to add missions or campaigns that take place after that or around the same time as the Warcraft 3 story I’m fine with it. I do also not mind slight changes like making some of the maps look a bit more like the way we are used to in wow. But the story and dialogue must remain the same as it was in the original.


#18

Would be cool tho to play Illidan and Arthas and what they were up to in the expansions.


#19

This will be my last comment in this thread, but overall I agree with you guys. I don’t like how Warcraft was handled since WoW, but my whole point is not to rush a Warcraft IV or get too worked up about a few creative changes in the Reforged campaign. Even if some y’all don’t like it, I’m sure there will be mod authors who will remaster the original maps entirely to point, or edit the campaign to the way they see fit.

I’d have more interest in WCIV or perhaps additional content once I’m confident that Blizzard has pulled off Reforged and have good writers (they’ve proven to have issues concerning WoW and LotV). I hope they don’t mess with it too much of course, but as long as it is true to the original in the feel and story, I’ll be satisfied.


#20

I agree they should not touch the lore to match wow’s.

To every true warcraft fan Wow’s lore was ok-ish until wrath of lich king, but still… dont touch it.