Hi!
I have made several complaints claiming Undead needs rework and is by far the worst race. I usually get flamed: ”no you are wrong look at Happy he is the best”.
This is a recent interview with Happy:
warcraft3.info/articles/259/community-spotlight-an-interview-with-happy
I cut away the http… because you cant include links in posts
1.He states that UD is severely worse than orc and that it is the most imbalanced matchup he has ever seen.
-
He confirms NE is now overpowered and that serveral patch changes recentlly, such as orc T2 fortifikations is a joke.
-
He confirms UD has no chance vs ORC or NE if they are good enough.
-
He confirms UD needs a complete rework.
So, please. I rest my case, i have reference to the best UD saying exactly what i say.
And finally I am never going to to purchase Reforged since my Undead race has been underpowered for over 10 years. Actually as long as wc3 has existed undead has been the worst race. So thx but no thanks. You want to sell a product? Improve it.
6 Likes
Undead is such an odd race when it comes to balance. I agree with you, they are very underpowered vs NE and ORC and always have been.
HOWEVER
Undead vs Human is the lamest match up in the game. Undead has a very clear cut path to victory every game while the Human is usually scrapping it out just to get a expo going so they can contend with the UD in late game.
I would say UD vs HU is just as bad for the HU as UD vs ORC is for the UD.
There is not a chance on earth human has the same problems with us as ud has with orc. The matchup is probably equal or favored to human. Read his analysis of it in the interview. What is the problem for you? And what is that “clear cut path”? Please also State your tournament winnings and ladder accounts. I have no interest debating balance issues with novice players who simply, if you excuse me, suck.
1 Like
Actually that was a well-known fact everything that happy said. I many times said on this forum and on reddit that UD currently unplayable against NE and ORC. About UDvHU MU I think pretty much everyone will agree with the fact that here UD is in a favorable position, that’s pretty obvious, BUT i don’t think that it’s broken MU or something currenlty, for example chaemiko 2-0 ed 120 on WGL, so what. I notice that many whine @ussies are currenlty playing for HU and trying to spread their affection on others like crytod, deathnote, etc and people like thorzain continue to win…
Let’s face it UD need buffs and they’re currently unplayable on high level, there’re a lot cheese\lame strategies against this race and currenlty I don’t see who might like to face every game mass NE air or mass orc riders\wyverns with fortificated towers for mediocre players I think that’s way too much…
1 Like
He also said, that his gamesense isn’t the best.
1 Like
Undead are my favorite for sure. I will be getting reforged, however I will be very happy if blizz buffs them.
3 Likes
Thank you near! UD are for sure unplayable at high level. You make a good point that the game is not only imbalanced in the mainstream strats but there are to much abuse in general that any n00b Can pull off vs UD besides the current meta game. Sadly i think that is the case vs human also. I think a good human is very hard to beat for UD. They got so many options and counters to everything UD has. TED, a former UD pro consudered human to be imba. Happy, before the patches now considered UD = human. I consider a good human very very hard to beat. So i cannot say UD is better. MK is quite OP now and rifles are awesome. UD can be harassed to death.
And yes. Tod is an unmannered clown who whines and flames everyone he looses to. Its a fact.
But let’s not discuss it. As you say some things are a well know fact. And if UD needs rework the relation with human will change and hence will be needed to be reworked In both ways anyway.
Nice to hear sensible ppl exist in these forums.
I think a good human is very hard to beat for UD. They got so many options and counters to everything UD has. TED, a former UD pro consudered human to be imba.
The fact that TH000 chose to play Nightelf instead of Human specifically against Undead in the latest tournament speaks for itself. If the by far best (human) player in the world who beats Moon 4 - 2 in the finals and wins the tournament is not confident enough to stick to his main race against Undead you should stop claiming that this matchup is not imbalanced. It’s probably just a weak matchup for you.
Nevertheless I also think that Undead has a weak matchup against Orc and Nightelf and I’d like to see it reworked so gameplay gets more diverse.
I highly doubt this will happen though since the devs obviously struggle to tweak some numbers wihout completely breaking the balance of the game.
Yeah, we can just look at every tournament and see how things goes with UD currently, sometimes they win against NE or ORC but it demands such a strong outplay form UD while NE or ORC just abuse thier patch strength. And I think that a sign of a pretty bad game design.
As Happy said UD heroes unsustainbale and relies only on coil nova damage. Let’s look at UD and other races’ ULTIMATES.
DK- joke ultimate that prolly never was picked in a pro scene
Lich-joke similar to earthquake
Crypt lord-besides that it’s always third hero his ultimate trash as well)
DL-ok here’s a winner, the first good ultime in race
ORC
SH-sick ult
BM-sick ult
TC-the best ult in the game incoming
FS-really poor ultimate, ok
BUT taking into consideration that besides their sick ultimates they’re also the strongest heroes in game, kinda unfair don’t you think so?
HUM
AM-sick ult prolly second after TC’s ult
MK-at least GOOD ultimate
BM-sick ult
Paladin-sick ult
also woth to metion that HUM has the strongest triple heroes combo after ORC.
NE-all their ults are sick, the arguable one only on potm BUT it’s not weaker than earthquake or death and decay crap.
Also currenlty we have NE that can buy clarities AND have moonwells, while UD the only race that lack clarities.
No healing until T2, no dispel until T3, necroes\gargoyles\MW all this units is a big funny joke, WEB COSTS 150 OMG (ensnare for 75 saying you hello), T3 gargoyles form, buildings on blight (not significant but also) etc etc
Actually I can continue but the thing is that on every other race we have units\upgrades better than on UD’s side, why is everything that way I personally dunno, but we definitely should make something with a lot of UD problems.
UD easily being lamed by orcs economy-wise.
No real AA capabilities.
No real expansion capabilities (don’t talk with me about DL expo)
No first hero viability
No clarities in the shop (please take away you fckg scrolls of healing and give this race clarities)
No healings until T2 and what supposed to became substitution for that (blight) isn’t effective at all. Overall I just leave everything to developers to handle with all this crap coz if things will go that way I doubt there’ll be any players who like to be abused by mass riders\wyverns in every game…
3 Likes
You shouldn’t pick up thing in a such plain view. Infi decribed why he’s playing NE agaisnt orc instead of HU same goes for UD. Taking into consideration that they’re friends with TH and plays always pretty similar it’s fair to say that they’re doing that due to common reason and that reason is because NE IS JUST STRONGER THAN THIS TWO RACES, not because HUM is unplayable against it, TH many times stated that IF they apply a rule of ONLY ONE RACE he’ll play as a HUM.
undead is not underpowered…the hell is he talking about.
talk to Grubby or ToD…Undead can hold off any all in with just a hero, a shop and a tower…including any sort of close spawn on small maps like turtle rock. no other race can do that, not elf, not orc not human. 1v1 undead is ridiculous at the moment.
Ask Happy how undead plays against human right now…human has 0 chance against undead in almost every scenario in every tier of the game. THAT is an imbalance…and it has nothing to do with “Human sucking”. UD heroes have ridiculous synergy and the fact that they can shred armies alone is ridiculous
1 Like
You made a lot of mistakes in a word - NE!
Race unplayable as against ORC as against NE, Kotg cancer conquer wc3 1v1, people like happy just leave from games if they faced Mass-wyvern dudes and here’s a professional who told us where’s a balance really lay, some sort of fairytales about undead heroes that tear something apart, funny pretty funny!
UDvHU is unbalanced yeah, but like DUDE UD CANNOT PLAY AGAINST TWO RACES CURRENTLY (HELLO!).
While HUM slain Moon in the last tournaments and unarguably claimed favorable in MU against ORC. Nice logic! Let’s nerf DL or whatever retards from reddit want recently)
Ask happy? I just referenced him and he also discussed human there. Are you slow?.
This is the behavior I talked about. Ask happy bla bla. I JUST REFERENCED HIM.
“Human has 0 chance against UD at any tier”… dude… I think you have 0 chance against anyone at any tier both in Warcraft 3 and real life. The lack of intelligence and objectivity in you statements are really disqusting. Your problem is that you suck at Warcraft. I suck at warcraft also, but I can make an objective balance analysis, you can’t.
People like you are cancer to the game and society. “Undead can defend any all in with a hero and shop and tower”. Do you seriously believe that yourself? Second, only noobs like you does all ins. Grubby has also confirmed UD is the weakest race. Tod is nothing I will discuss. A whiner that complains at everyone he looses to and has 0 freinds among streamers and bad mannered and not objective. Mabye you have something in common, besides the homosexuality.
2 Likes
you sound like a low level scrub fong.
UD has always been a great race and very strong. top players in my old clan which was a pro clan btw were undead, and ruled ladder on all servers. YOu have no idea what you’re talking about, and if you do, meet me in clan ag and we can either 1v1 or talk about it.
1 Like
Human vs Undead is lame to me because of how each side is usually forced to play it. Beating a UD as HU without lots of towers is very hard.
That being said. It caused me to switch to NE/ORC to vs UD. So like its a multiverse of a problem because it is so bad it’s making people switch races just to get certain match ups.
Th000 is the greatest example. He has been dominating with NE vs UD but just beat moon as HU
Oh yeah? Can you please tell me the names of these players and clan that ruled all servers as undead? You cant! Because it’s not true. I never heard a more ridiculous statement. Furthermore, I have referenced the opinions of the most well known undead player in the world with unquestional merits. You have NOTHING to add to this discussion.
2 Likes
Bragging about UD on bnet, oh god, what a clown. Open Liquipedia, then open major tournament 1v1 and check how much won HU\NE\ORC and how much UD. In order not to force you to do such a difficult movements I can tell you that from 2011-2017 HU won most of the tournaments and in 2014 won ALL MAJOR TOURNAMENTS. Undead throughout the history of major competitions won 4 major trourneys since 2011 (by 120))))))), for example NE won 13, and HU 29))
Money wise (esports recent report): HU won 1.500.000$
NE 1.350.000$
ORC 1.300.000$
UD 700.000$
And on top of that currenlty UD never won anything significant since 1.30. Top notch UD like wfz and 120 lose to 2nd tier NE like colorful and XiXi, Happy loosing to 2nd tier trash orcs on bnet and flying out from infi’s mass wyvs in 7 minutes. There’s no new blood for UD in a years while HUM and NE constantly have new faces on tourneys (neytpoh,BoB, lebabyTOd etc). Race unplayable IN TWO MATCH UPS and here’s a clown with his imbecile brain trying to prove his stupid opinion with no name clan on bnet US the worst skill-wise server. I have no words, you’re retarded, that’s it…
4 Likes
UD are like a house of cards.
The entire race might seem functional but it is literally standing on thinnest possible legs.
Blizz needs to rework the whole race because small changes will either do nothing or bring the whole house tumbling down.
- The DK is mandatory because UD Shop has no proper healing item for army or heroes, and the move speed from Unholy is just way too good to skip.
- Lich second is mandatory especially for the Orb of Corr.
- Orb of Corruption is the worst problem for UD because they are crap without it and poorly balanced with it.
- UD have the most problem fortifying expansions.
- UD Melee is bad (especially ghouls), UD casters are bad (necros easily countered despite requiring tech, upgrades, meatwagons and statues).
- UD gargs and wyrms are pretty much never seen in serious 1v1, especially the gargs are fragile.
- Gargoyles and Shades have targeting/AI issues (gargoyles prefer auto attacking ground, shades often stop following targets because they went around corner or up a cliff)
- Massive reliance on Statues, slow moving units that cant be coiled/healed (only repaired) and are easily killed which cripples UD… plus once they are out of mana they are useless unless Destro form.
- Destroyers are the last dispel unlocked, requiring tier 3 and a research… UD should have a new dispel option at tier 2, perhaps statues themselves.
- A LOT of UD Hero abilities are close to being complete garbage and due to DK/Lich being mandatory you pretty much never even see the others (outside of gimmicks)
- UD bases are hardest to “wall off” because of big ziggurats and the weird pathing that Necropolis and Graveyard allows around its sides.
These are just some of the issues i can think off from the top of my head.
UD need a complete rework of their mechanics, various units, their Shop items, their hero abilities, how their army heals etc etc…
5 Likes
Stole words from my tongue, but I think probably anyone with an IQ higher than 50 understood that. You might reject that only in case if you’re startled upon UD became finally decent in this old game…
2 Likes