dude he literally just posted above why blizzard backed off on the idea of a full reimagining. It was never the budget, it was the overwhelming feedback from the player base in the east. They already had a fully imagined cutscene of the culling with new voices, map and camera angles and they were already working on more.
1 Like
Revisited campaign (missions + cinematics), Bnet 2.0 support, achievements, editor upgrade, revamped ladder, rebalancing, revisited UI… and they are not only skins, but a re-model (3D) of everything.
1 Like
At Blizzcon they said they tried to make it work but it ended up feeling too far removed from what WC3 was supposed to feel/play like.
Basically they tried it and it sucked. No surprise there. You don’t do a Picasso++ and expect to have it retain all of the same emotion.
What happened was the purists started throwing tantrums because they have nothing better to hold on to in their lives.
Also if this was a Picasso level masterpiece why are so many people outraged about the cut content? Oh that’s right, because it isn’t.
3 Likes
Oh yeah… those people seemed to be the right contact persons for questions about the campaign and cinematics. This has absolutely no influence on the online stuff. The only thing they want, is that the game works like before… understandable, but that should in no way have any affect to the plans of the campaign. So, ask people who really care about the campaign and story. And not only 3…
I still hope they do the changes they initially wanted anyways.
7 Likes
Yes, agreed to Rudeboy. Many viewers who watched livestreams of The Culling beta campaign said the cutscene looks a bit WoW-ish, and still want to retain to the classic WC3 cutscenes. They should know that the cutscene isn’t like that because of WoW, but they’re like that because that’s progress. WoW never invented that look of a cutscene; it just so happens Blizzard used that style of cutscene to WoW, and supposedly the Reforged of WC3.
6 Likes
Thank you for this post.
1 Like
Really? I liked it much much more than the original ‚cutscenes‘ (if you can say so). It was very well done, set in scene and I instantly wanted more. That was great!
And I wonder… if everything stayed like before… where is the sense of a remake/reforged?
5 Likes
This post applies to your post aswell. Please read.
This is exactly why I posted this thread…
It was never about budget, but incompetence. Competent game designers would have sat down and said, “instead of stripping away what we had, let’s go all out on the plans, but we’ll add a 3rd option for players to have the original campaign but just in HD”
Boom. Done. All are happy. But nope!
I always viewed the pve to be very similar to the OG campaign but to also have these changes:
- A few completely redone mission: Example could be on the assault of silvermoon, instead of teleporting around and using goblin zeppelins, the player would spread plague to target locations using ziggurats then hordes of undead would help the player push past the gates.
- Extra missions to explain things and help the story flow: Example could be having Arthas revive invincible, and/or show the rise of the cult of the damned with
Kel’Thuzad
- Changed maps to be more accurate to world of Warcraft with perhaps key features and easter eggs
- New recorded dialog for the new missions and characters
I hope blizzard delivers some of these features
1 Like
that was in 2018 interview but thanks for sharing
2 Likes
I’m honestly still floored and deflated that they’ve decided to go down this route. I loved Warcraft III and was really excited to go back to one of the few games I’ve consistently played over the years.
I mean, barring minor gripes, yeah the new models are nice, but it’s a far cry from the breath of life that I was expecting.
I just rewatched the demo Culling of Stratholme cutscene. It was absolutely gorgeous and it would’ve been great to see the same care given to every Mission Intro, Outro and Interlude.
Can you imagine Arthas picking up Frostmourne, or killing Uther? The desecration of the Sunwell? The summoning of Archimonde? Grom drinking the blood of Mannoroth?
There are so many iconic moments that we could’ve relived in a much better fashion. Instead we get… exactly what we had, but with better graphics.
The lack of new voicework was a real punch in the gut, too. Not only would this have allowed for additional campaign material that was left out of the original, it would’ve been a boon for map makers and effectively doubled our resources. It’s especially bad considering voicework is the one thing an amateur can’t reasonably do at home, unlike modeling, skinning or animating.
This is definitely not what was marketed, and I’m beyond annoyed at the vocal minority of purists who tried to monopolize enjoyment of Warcraft 3 in order to hijack the development process, and get content cut. Especially considering how careful Blizzard was to stress that players would retain the option to toggle between old and new things (Models, UI, Voices, etc.)
It’s outright depressing.
7 Likes
Well it honestly comes down to how do you “define” a remake.
Obviously from Blizzard’s point of view this was set out to be more than just a “remaster”, but here are few things that were clear from the very beginning:
-They never said they were going to completely remake every map, nor add in any entirely new ones in campaign
-They never were going to make changes to the overall game design/gameplay
-They were never going to remake all the CGI cutscenes, that they made clear already last year, only the intro/original trailer CGI cinematic was remade.
-Story was going to stay 99% exactly the same, only small additions to the lore would have been added.
So in that way it was NEVER going to be complete overhaul/remake. Obviously it was going to be more than just lets say Age of Empires: Definitive Edition or SC: Remastered…and it still is, because of entirely remade character models and some of the campaign maps. But ofc right now it leans more towards remaster than remake even more.
But in my mind if this had been remake in every sense of the word, then from the very beginning they would have at very least changed the game engine, changed the game design/gameplay, completely remake the campaign maps and added in possibly new ones and make larger adjustments to the story/dialogue etc and remade even all the CGI cinematics. Thats what a remake in every sense of the word in my honest opinion is and Reforged was never going to be like that, but for sure it was going to be more than what its going to be now
2 Likes
-Some maps WILL still see major changes like Stratholme, Silvermoon, Dalaran and Ashenvale.
-New characters WILL be added in to the campaign maps like Anasterian Sunstrider. His character model is already confirmed to be in Reforged
-Cutscenes will still look better than in the original, although ofc not as good as the one they made last year.
-Better filters and options to sort out custom games in multiplayer
And yes even the skins ARE new content as they were made entirely from scratch. Overall ofc if this is not enough to you, and you really want to see new campaigns, new stories etc, then keep on asking Blizzard to make entirely new campaings to Reforged or perhaps there is even small chance they might eventually make Warcraft IV.
Either way the way I see it all of you who are complaining now WOULD have paid mostly for the same old content anyways, just with better visuals. There would NOT have been any additional missions or campaings to begin with, the story would have remained largely exactly the same…the biggest cuts were simply the re-recorded voice acting and entirely remade cutscenes. Any story additions would have been very minor like Christie Golden said already last year.
3 Likes
And you really, honestly believe that we “purists” were the sole reason they decided cancel some of their plans? Come on now, even if I as “purists” would like to take all the credit for that, I think its just Vanvan said, this largely time constraint/budget related thing. I have no reason to see why Activision-Blizzard would have any will to pour in that much money and resources to WC3: Reforged. As I said in other thread, I get the feeling that Reforged team is already being pushed into some other project, which is why they are not going to be allowed to push the release of the game beyond 2019.
And yes I actually consider WC3 a masterpiece as it is…the reason for re-recorded voice acting and adding stuff to the story/lore was NOT because WC3’s storyline or voice acting would have been bad, but the idea was to “bridge” it further into WoW’s current lore and add in some stuff there that was either missing or adding more to the story/characters of Sylvanas and Jaina, atleast from perspective of those who play WoW. Anyhow they were NEVER going to change the actual dialogue or story as it would have needed fixing in that way, the reason for what they had planned was entirely to make WoW players who never played WC3 to feel “more at home” with voice actors that they know and with the lore additions that were then later added in after WC3, but again these would have been nothing major.
But because vast majority of people were indeed very loudly against such things last year, the Reforged team according to their own words decided to listen to community and scrap new voice acting and lore additions, aside from revamping some of the maps and adding in characters like Anasterian Sunstrider in it. But basicly along with the re-recorded voice acting they scrapped any and all new dialogue/cutscenes for Jaina and Sylvanas that they had planned. Anyhow I again think this had much more to do with budget, small development team and/or limited time they had, but ofc they are not allowed to say those things out loud, nor that they are likely being pushed into other projects already which is why they have to get Reforged out already in 2019 instead of pushing the release to 2020.
u guys just dont understand the difference between a remake and a remaster.
A remake is the same game build in a new engin. it is remade in it !
A remaster is using the old stuff and make it better like hd grafics and some new features
So clearly Wc3R is a Remaster in that sense. Why is it called Reforged. Pretty easy cuz they use the old enging and put new stuff on top of it. 2200 totaly new models and so on
And once again I honestly think you are giving too much “credit” to us "purists…
Let me be clear once and for all what I personally think went on behind the scenes:
-Reforged team realized soon after Blizzcon 2018 that had simply too few people to pull of remaking all the ingame cutscenes in the 1 year timeframe they had, let alone add in entirely new ones/extended the existing ones
-Knowing Activision-Blizzard, they likely were not one bit interested of giving Reforged team more people, time or resources to make their original plans happen. Blizzard is currently busy as it is with Diablo IV, Diablo mobile game, WoW and Overwatch 2 and Activision-Blizzard has announced clear plans to push towards mobile games with nearly ALL their existing franchises.
-Thus when it was clear that they could NOT pull of remaking all the cutscenes or adding in new ones, Reforged team then decided that it was not really worth the effot to even re-voice the existing dialogue, especially if majority of people back then on these forums and in Reforged YT trailers were against it. Without the new cutscenes, the re-voiced dialogue would have made little sense in the first place.
And ofc Reforged team is now allowed to speak any of this in public. This is my honest opinion what likely went on behind the scenes and why they had to scrap their original plans. Let me be also clear that most of us “purists” also said that as long as we can choose the new voice acting combined with remade cutscenes (obviously leaving out any new parts), we would have been happy with that. But again with the scrapping of the entirely remade cutscenes and the extended/new ones, I think that is when Reforged team really also decided to throw remade voice acting out of the window, cause without the new/extended cutscenes, what was the point? Besides pleasing the WoW fans ofc who are used to hearing different voice actors for most of the characters.
2 Likes
I don’t want new campaigns. I just want them to do what they promised: updated cinematics, voice lines and make sure all the retcons are cleared up.
You are making assumptions because it’s easier to kill that argument. Don’t be a shill.
A remake would be a new engine and a new take on the game… This is just new graphics and some updates to balance and campaign maps/multiplayer. It feels exactly the same as classic wc3.
Don’t get fooled by marketing lingo used in interviews.
2 Likes