Thoughts on Ability Reworks for Campaign?

General Discussion
1

What if for example instead of having sylvanas be dark ranger with her abilities:

Silence,Black Arrow, Life Drain, Charm

she has her own abilities?

Would this be excessive? I rather have characters like garithos have there own abilties than reuse abilites like holy light and devotion aura etc?

Thoughts?

This only applies to hero units that are different so for example all Garithos is different than Paladin etc. They reuse some abilites but are unique.

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Is this in response to my post in the other thread? Because yeah I think this makes sense.

With Sylvanas, I think the reverse is true though. Those are unique abilities that only she has in the campaign and the dark ranger from the tavern is just based on her. I don’t think she needs a re-work.

However, I do think living Sylvanas from the ROC campaign could use a re-work. She just has all the same abilities as Tyrande and IIRC she never actually uses starfall in the campaign (but if you look at her in the world editor, that is her ultimate).

I think she would make for a cooler hero and a more interesting opponent if they gave her abilities more similar to Rexxar, making her seem like an actual hunter class ranger rather than being a copy of Tyrande who is a Priest-Hunter hybrid. As is, she is just Tyrande with a different model.

My ideas are hardly comprehensive, but she could keep Marksman Aura, and I think all of her other abilities should be changed to make her more interesting. Instead of searing arrows, I think critical strike might be better, or maybe another active ability.

She would need some sort of active ability instead of Scout (the summoned owl). Maybe something like multishot that Valla has in HOTS. A cone blast. Not sure if there is anything like that in WC3 already.

I think her ulti should definitely be nature/beast based. Maybe she summons a powerful bear (or a more suitable beast that is kindred to the high elves, can’t think of one now) or a powerful treant.

I think a lot more work was put into her undead version (understandably) and that it is already perfect as is.

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why would it make any sense for campaign to differ from campaign? new players are supposed to play campaign in order to learn multiplayer. if campaign is different then it will only confuse new players trying to transition into multiplayer, reforged is improving wc3 not making a whole new game

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No changes is all the change we need.

5

Wait, what? Why would Thalassian Ranger-General Sylvanas have anything to do with Rexxar?

Stop with this WoW nonsense. Hunter and Rogue are literally the classes that have been made for WoW. They did not exist in WC3 and are abominable in all respects.

Mage, Warlock, Paladin, Shaman, even Warrior actually make sense. Not those two.

By the way, how can this work? Could Retera explain it? Because, for example, Mal’Ganis does not cast Inferno because he has no Inferno. But why doesn’t Sylvanas cast Starfall?

No, this is not. This has been the idea on these forums since 11 months ago. Especially concerning Grom.

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I think you should maybe calm down. This is just a game.

But to answer your questions.

You are only looking at the superficial qualities. I don’t mean that Sylvanas should feel like Rexxar. I mean that Rexxar’s abilities felt like a Beast Master’s abilities.

Sylvanas’ abilities do not feel like a Farstrider Ranger’s abilities. They feel like a copy of a High Priestess (because they are).

Hunter and rogue and all that stuff already existed in RPG games long before WoW and WC3 already has RPG elements. Sylvanas is called a Ranger-General, but “General” isn’t her class. That’s just her rank as leader of the Farstriders. As far as hero class goes, she is some type of ranger/hunter.

I don’t know why Sylvanas never uses Starfall, but I never even realised that she had the ability until I played with her in the world editor. Maybe they just capped her at level 5.

Guess it was just a coincidence then.

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What would a Beast Master have in common with a Farstrider General?

What is a High Priestess? You mean PotM?

I doubt she hunts. Again, why would you ever call her a “hunter”? Maybe a headhunter? Do you mean the WoW class?

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Garithos is NOT a paladin.

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As long as it’s fun. Throughout the original campaign we play with a lot of ‘changed’ units, curropted orcs, draenei, naga, and even with a few changed heroes like Varimathras and Garithos. Some of these are fun or interesting so much so that we see a lot of people asking for the naga race.

I say go for it, reforged campaign should be as crazy and fun as it can, because we will always have the old campaign to fall back on(and probably with the new graphics too)

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There is little in common with Rexxar and Sylvanas. I have already stated that you are focusing on superficial details.

I use Rexxar as an example of a well done unique campaign hero whose abilities align with his character.

I won’t explain that again. I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

Yes, I meant a priestess of the moon.

Rangers are members of several organizations on Azeroth, Outland, and alternate Draenor, skilled in wilderness survival and exploration. The most famous of them are the various groups of elven rangers: elite archers and scouts that may also work with animals.

“The way of the hunter is one of mastery over the beasts of the world, an unparalleled precision in marksmanship, and the knowledge of how to survive in situations where others would perish.”

wow.gamepedia(dot)com/Ranger

wow.gamepedia(dot)com/Hunter

www.dndbeyond(dot)com/classes/ranger

www.dandwiki(dot)com/wiki/Hunter_(5e_Class)

If you can’t see the overlap and connection between RPG (read: not WoW exclusive) classes of hunter and ranger then I don’t know what to tell you.

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Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

For Garithos not to be a paladin they would have to perform yet another retcon because as is, he is 100% a ret paladin.

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He is not a paladin. He is a dark knight

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To be honest, I would love to see this.

But I could only see this happening through some fan remake, and not by Blizzard. That being said

  • Grom should have his own set of abilities
  • Scouting type abilities should be swapped out from heroes. If they are necessary for campaign, keep them in as free starter abilities, not as level up skill choices.

Then I’d also suggest some general tweaks to the campaign.

  • AI should be tweaked to provide better challenge. Difficulty increase should be through enemy micro, not artificial stat boosts. Take a note from Heroes of the Storm PVE AI.
  • Randomized enemy camp placement, or randomized ‘minibosses’ to encounter
  • Random ‘Legendaries’ that alter gameplay. Something like Arthas finding a ‘Shield of Deflection’ item in Searinox’s stash that allows you to Taunt and Reflect Damage; allowing you to make better use out of Divine Shield or Devotion.
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15

Grom Garithos and Akama should have thier own abilities