Here’s the problem with the Reforged models. As concept art and standalone models, they look amazing. When you insert them into a melee game, they don’t fulfill their intended purpose at all.
Looking at them from an overhead, battlefield-control view. . . it looks awful. The colors are so washed-out, there are few distinguishing features to serve the purpose of quickly identifying each unit. Looking at tournament play in Reforged is just…confusing. The armies look like blobs of color - can’t tell the difference between a sorc, priest, or a breaker.
And this is the problem. All of these idiots on this forum will crow, “What’s the problem with outsourcing?! All of the best game development studios do it!” I’m willing to bet that those studios actually work closely with the outsource company to tell them exactly what they need from the models and play test the outsourced content first to make sure it fits the style of the game. That…clearly didn’t happen here.
LemonSky’s talent is not in question here. The question is why they weren’t given enough creative direction to guide them away from making mobs that look super detailed when you look at them from a first person view, but look absolutely devoid of any distinguishing features when playing the game the way it’s actually played. . . using an overhead view.
Like I said, the models actually look pretty good; if this were a brand new title and we were all learning everything from scratch, maybe I could see how it would make sense, but it isn’t, and we aren’t. The models look NOTHING like their original counterparts except for, MAYBE, the rifleman.
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There are also a lot of technical issues with lighting, shaders and stuff. I wonder why no one of the whole line from Blizzard management until the IT support of LemonSky realized these kinds of models are not what you need in a RTS game.
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Is that most say that the problem is Lemon Sky.
But as you say it is true, the problem is that Lemon Sky was asked for models for Cinematicas instead of models for an RTS.
And apart they did not put the cinematics.
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we’ve had that discussion like 500 times now.
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Yea i’m not an artist, but I had to figure something else is going on. Many technical issues and, like Tutancdead, said, the models are just not suited for RTS at all.
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The problem is that the overdetailed models is that you can’t see the difference fast between 2 units - they all look the same. Another big problem are the hitboxes, they 1.doesn’t fit the size of the units and 2.lead to many missclicks.
if you want to play reforged daily you switch to classic, because the classic models are superior in every aspect of creating an enjoyable gaming expirience.
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my god, not that myth again. details have nothing to do with readability. its color and contrast vs. area. not the polycount of the model or resolution of the texture.
you can solve 95% of all “reforged graphics issues” with texture recoloring shadermap optimizations and lighting configuration in the engine. the other 5% are amputating 2 legs off of the crypt fiend and replacing that godawful buzzcut paladin.
the models are fine - the underlaying base of textures is fine - the colortuning is non-existant. and thats the issue. models having individual fingers is not making the readability worse - units blending into the background textures and into each other with no standout details in low contrast lighting is the culprit.
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I think I can better define the complaint.
The problem of super detailed models to see from the front.
It is not super detailed to see from above. What makes it difficult to distinguish them quickly.
Also, what is the point of so many details in the front view of the model if the front view of the model is almost never used?
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The models are fine, Blizzzard just needs to polish them so they pose the same benefits as the OLD classic wc3 graphics. For example, being able to see through a tornado, or visually be able to tell if you got 5 peasants & peons on gold mine at first glance.
Then models are not fine. Whatever the fix is the game looks like a crappy mobile app. Everything just kind of bleeds into each other detail wise. I would have gone with the older artwork with some hdr effects, better lightning, reflections, simple engine tweaks honestly. The biggest problem got me is the reforged avatars and those dead eyes. Looks awful. The originals had character. Had feeling.
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We had a super long conversation regarding this.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/t/misinformation-regarding-the-reforged-models-megathread/26476
But ultimately if you want to make this situation a TL-DR.
From the start the Classic Team knew that they did not want to do any engine switches. to make sure that they can preserve things like the original world editor which is far, far more user friendly.
In return the models needed to be something more humble and down to earth to properly suit the game functionally. but they weren’t and here we are.
Its just that some people here are so high over their bias love for the new models they think there must exist a magical world that there can be such outlandish and heafty models and also good mapmaking/modding and functionality and performance.
No, this is isn’t some dream land, everything comes with a cost. and the cost to “Higher Quality” models that far exceeds what we actually “Need” is worse performance, worse functionality. lots of headache when it comes to tweaking models for community use, and a burden for map sizes. especially when there is 0 hope that Blizzard will ever try to support in house mod-plugins.
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Nah, the real issue is the Alliance and Horde don’t have a female alt model for any heroes while the Night Elves and Undead do.
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Yes, this is exactly it. Everything bleeds into each other because the detail from the top is muddled.
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i know ,LemonSky just follow what actiblizzard needs on their demand, if i create 1 unit model and i give it to blizzard,they should reanimate more in the engine , more idle ,attack,onhold,walks,running ,and take extra with new animation such holding sword animation,walk with animation etc…but my question is, why they use old engine for reforged and play for $30? lol…
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Yeah the reforged models are like impossible to distinguish in sometimes even small fights.
I’d also like to note they just lack the charm the classic models have. It almost feels like the reforged ones are just cheap asian copies… ohh wait.
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Yes and to talk about readability for example since SC2 had skins and some units were seen looking the same: e.g immortal and stalker
https://external-preview.redd.it/mmMEY24oDpAU5XnuPY5P7-KkneU65jaUISNdr7w8mxk.png?auto=webp&s=96789a815cae2bbf219b206c5aae0f6b07ab6ebe
So their solution e.g with next skins was to make them look different, so some units would have one tint compared to another
https://i.imgur.com/go3BMRr.jpg
They could make a knight more gold plated, a footman more silvery and so on.
For sure, but they fundamentally changed the unit model, didn’t just add detail. So it’s like starting over from scratch playing a new game with new units.