The Human buffs went too far

Competitive Multiplayer
1

In my opinion.

MK Clap is too strong. The Aoe radius should not increase with level. The mana cost is too low for how much damage it deals. Compare this to carrion swarm which is capped at 5-6 units. Clap has no damage cap whatsoever and costs less mana than carrion swarm. Ontop of that it adds undispellable slow to all units around it which is pretty close to Stomp im terms of effectiveness.

Flying Machines didn’t need a 25% hp buff and damage buff. Destroyers already got nerfed and Riflemen got buffed. Windriders are easy to deal with as is, simply with Riflemen, Water Elementals and Stormbolt. Since Water Elemental damage got increased, its even easier to counter them than before.

Sundering blades is doing too much damage. Against medium armor a Knight does 172,5% damage instead of 150%. With 35 average damage, this equals about 60 damage before armor reduction.

Knights are high hp and high armor units which makes healing and staff extremely valuable on them. They should not deal this much damage.

The Orb of fire is useful, but against UD is dealing insane damage. A level 3 coil is reduced by 210 healing. I propose a nerf to 25% healing reduction instead of 35%.

We see this in the recent results. 4 Humans and 1 Nightelf in the top 4 in WCG. TH000 is reassuring Moon that the game isn’t fair. The pro players know that Human is overpowered at the moment.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/WC3/comments/cgwjxr/th000_told_moon_i_think_this_game_is_not_fair_you/

Buffs to Paladin aura and Rings increase the value of healing aswell. High hp units and heroes like the Mountain King and Knights benefit a lot from this.

Lets look at each Matchup:

HU vs Orc:

MK with clap destroys Orc. Most Orc players are hopeless against Human at the moment. Lyn is switching to Human instead of playing Orc mirror because its an easy matchup for him. Using Blademaster and Shadowhunter along with Grunts, Raiders, Kodos and Spirit walkers is extremely difficult simply because of clap. Orc players have started playing Farseer and Tauren Chieftain instead because they cannot win prolonged engagements against human anymore.

HU vs NE:

The human lategame army is the big problem. Players are heavily struggeling against Rifles, Mortar teams with Inner fire. Clap and Blizzard is devastating against Bears. NE seems to lack an effective way to deal with Humans t3 ranged army.

HU vs UD:

A very polarized matchup. The matchup is all about expansions and hero levels. Again the human t3 with high level heroes seems to be overpowering. Gyrocopters shut down Destroyers incredibly easily as Destroyers have received heavy nerfs and Gyros received huge buffs. Knights deal too much damage against Fiends and the Orb prevents healing them to full.
UD’s only way to win seems to be killing units with spells over and over which turns the game into a boring hit-and run game, as can be seen in the video below. Of course another huge problem is UD’s lack of unit variety. Ghouls, Necromancers, Gargs, Frost wyrms which in theory could counter Knights are completely useless in this matchup. Aboms still suffer from poor stats and cannot keep up with Knights in terms of effectiveness.

Take a look at this very recent game to see how strong lategame human really is. 120, the 2nd best Undead player in the world is losing while having 1 more goldmine than the human player. If not for Sok’s missclicked stormbolt, he would have won the game even at an economic disadvantage which is unheard of in this matchup.

Personally I am still hoping for a huge UD rework. The destroyer needs a big redesign, destroyer - Gyrocopter battles are always incredibly lopsided which should not be the case. UD should have access to dispel on t2 and have more unit variety. Sadly the existance of the Mountain king with clap alone prevents UD from ever using a big melee ground army. Crypt lord remains the least used hero and still has not received any changes. Beetles will forever remain useless without big changes. Impale is still bugged and makes impaled units invulnerable.

Also whats the deal with Death Knight and Lich still having terrible ultimates to this day? Mountain King, Archmage, Blademaster, Demon Hunter, Alchemist, Keeper, Panda all have incredibly strong ultimates which can win the game!

Death Knight and Lich have terrible ultimates and received 0 changes. Keeper on the other hand already received big buffs to his ultimate which turned out to be too strong in the end. Alchemist ultimate can single handedly win the game by itself. All the UD players can do is select another level on Unholy Aura level 6. Lich has to pick dark ritual to provide him more mana which is way more useful than an ultimate which roots him in place and does pitiful tickle damage and prevents him from using the orb of corruption effect.

I have provided solutions to give DK and Lich proper ultimates already. But its still up to the design team to implement the neccesary changes.

What are your opinions on this? Is the only solution supposed to be “don’t let HU get t3 with high hero levels?”

9 Likes
2

Yop, human is quite overpowered. I play orcs and is sooooooo frustrating. Even knowing the army the human player is going to muster (AM, MK, sorceresses, spell breakers, priest) is impossible to counter it. Autocasts, unlimited healing and mana. It would be sooooo helpful an spell immunity unit for orcs…

5 Likes
3

On the other side of the under powered.

I think DL and CL need buffs.

Increase in lifesteal value for lvl 1. Same total value at lvl 3.

I think DL more realistically if given buffs to mana cost on sleep (reduction) and higher dmg cap on swarm he could be picked more often making hik equal in pick choice to DK.

2 Likes
4

I wouldn’t say “equal to DK” considering how vital Death Coil and Aura are, but he would definitely be more than just a niche/troll pick if his spells were more viable.

2 Likes
5

He is the closest to being a legit starter of changes were to be made.

I think Dk aura needs nerf while ulti gets buffed.

But aura is the biggest reason next to heal.

If it was reduced abit then people would start to choose between DL and DK because u can on DL buy sacrifice dagger and ghouls are cheap and have cannobibalze.

This idea would also make sense if the DL buffs above applied aswell.

Because only DL can be the alternative to a DK first pick. Lich is always a support. And CL is… Idk its too sad to talk about.

1 Like
6

No reason to nerf Aura. But they should buff the ultimate to give a better option than to pick next level on unholy Aura. Every Hero with aura has a better ult than selecting level 3 on Aura.

Sacrificial Dagger is just a joke. I have no idea why they made it a heal scroll with instant healing to test but then released a sub-par scroll of regeneration instead of simply testing the regeneration effect on PTR. Everyone has been asking to make cannibalize into a regeneration effect because no one can afford to have idle units on the map in the earlygame.

1 Like
7

I think a revert to old dagger would be better.

And yes buffing ulti could be the alternative to getting lvl 3 aura or death pact.

But buffing DL hard could also turn him into a optional valid pick and not a troll strat.

1 Like
8

Except buffing heroes “hard” will potentially obliterate the balance between UD and other races (Think Keeper of the Grove buffs to NE recently).

I honestly don’t think DK needs any straight-buffs. If any changes are made to him, he should probably have some of this aura power taken off. I’d also like to see some form of change to Death Pact and Ritual Sacrifice on DK to make it a more viable skill rather than just a dump or used for denies. Crypt Lord needs some serious reworking regardless of anything else though.

I’m with Basilisk, there should be some sort of change to Cannibalize, as it’s really not a useful/viable competitive tool.

1 Like
9

Yeh im saying nerf aura by a reasonable amount.

Buff DL swarm dmg cap and sleep early mana cost (lower it).

That alone should turn DL into a legitimate first pick.

But this can only work if sac dagger change is reverted aswell because for heals.

10

Why do you want to nerf aura? You can’t nerf unholy Aura, the whole UD race is a flimsy skeleton that immediately breaks down without the DK and his Aura.
UD units have 0 regeneration without unholy aura outside of blight. Aura lv 1 merely grants a small amount of regeneration. Aura level 2 is only picked up in UD vs NE as it is needed to combat the mass air strategy. Without it, its almost impossible to micro properly as your units continually get picked off.

In other matchups, Death pact is picked on level 4 and Aura level 2 is picked on level 6 because Animate Dead is a worthless ult.

Giving the DK a proper ultimate on level 6 will mean he no longer uses Aura 3 or Aura 2 on level 6. This is already less movement speed and heal on the whole army.

You don’t improve something by buffing part X and nerfing part Y. Instead you buff/ rework ultimate to turn something useless into something useful and thus giving players more options. UD already received something like this with Incite unholy frenzy and it turns out its terrible now.

11

Nah aura needs nerf.

While DL can support from vamp aura/blight.

And undead needs movespeed upgrade for ground units.