man asking about the logic behind wc3R will get you nowhere, this game was made with no effort and no thought whatsoever. Lore? Lore connections to WOW?
are you kidding me? these people made the naga have human ears, what lore do you think they understand? ZERO
‘Fans’ aka a handful of purists that did not want anything changed and blizzard can just project their opinion onto the entire community to be lazy.
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Don’t blame the state or WC3R on “purists”. The problem was the lack of budget. If they had gone through with the planned retcons all we would have got is a few tacked on missions and a redub. Judging by how bad the redubs in other languages have been I’d say you should thank the “purists”.
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Honestly, the lore/history of Warcraft 3 hasnt changed THAT much…besides in Warcraft III its NOT said that the Natherzim created Lich King, but it was Kil’jaeden who did and in my understanding that piece of lore has NOT changed. The details might have been added how EXACTLY Ner’zhul’s spirit was added into the said armor/helmet that Natherzim stole from Shadowlands, but essentially it DOESNT change the fact Ner’zhul/Lich King WAS creation of Kil’jaeden/Legion even if the armor/helmet themselves werent.
So to put it simply the ONLY piece of lore, tiny itty bit detail that DOES change in Shadowlands is that the Natherzim didnt actually create the armor and helmet (possibly not even Frostmourne?) but it doesnt change the fact that they WERE still tasked to keep Ner’zhul in check and see that he did what he was created/instructed to do.
Honestly when people talk that “WoW and the books that were released after WC3,changed/retconned WC3 lore completely” its simply not true…we are only talking about added in DETAILS here, not about some major story/lore changes that would utterly make WC3 lore somehow completely outdated.
Honestly Shadowlands lore is only relevant to that expansion, I dont see how the heck its any relevant to the events of Warcraft III…I dont see how its like absolutely necessary for the players to know exact details of Lich King’s creation, when it wasnt even explained in detail during WC3 (for new players anyway who had not played WC2) that Ner’zhul used to be orc shaman. I dont think its not even once mentioned properly in TFT, other than ofc its hinted at when they talk about the portals in Draenor/Outland that were opened by Ner’zhul.
I mean I understand that some of you might want every tiny detail to be in line and explained to players, but I honestly dont see the importance/relevance in terms of the story that WC3 tells. So to say that “Reforged/WC3” isnt even cannon is very, VERY wide exaggeration. Even if they had left out events at Silvermoon unchanged (not included Anasterian, left Sylvanas’ initial Banshee form unchanged, not had Sunwell on island and Arthas creating ice bridge over to it) it would still not have made the whole damn game irrelevant, cause ultimately in terms of WC3 lore we are only talking about added in details, not some grand retcons like lets say what Warcraft Movie did (which is why its not considered same canon as the Warcraft games lore)
So ye, I think you are exaggerating big time with this Shadowlands “retcon”, and its utterly nonissue compared to the other problems that Reforged has…
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Do we know this for a fact yet?
Because it’s gotten 15 years of story updates and media such as novels/Lore books and a cookbook.
And Warcraft 4 isn’t on Blizzard’s radar or the even the talk of providing more campaigns.
Because reforged wasn’t intended to do that. It was intended to be a remake of a classic game.
You’re insane.
Because blizzard say so(?)
Well that makes it even worse, as they announced the changes knowing they couldn’t fulfill it budget wise. The biggest opponents to any real change in the game were from those “purists” but I don’t hold blame towards them as its blizzard who have the final say, and they favored the opinions that can justify them being lazy. A few extra missions would of been fine and you have no idea how they would of turned out.
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Have they outright stated WC 3 isn’t canon then?
When you made books, quest and other things that clearly modify the lore of the old content, the old content is no longer canon. Just that.
Even if Burning Legion/Kil’jaeden/Dreadlords would not have been responsible for the armor/helmet or even Frostmourne, they DID still add/imprison Ner’zhul’s spirit in it…this piece of lore has NOT changed whatsoever, so essentially Lich King was still, atleast partially created by the Legion and Ner’zhul as Lich King WAS tasked by the Legion to wipe out the races threatening Legion’s return where the orcs failed.
You can whine all you want that “this would be outdated/not true anymore”, but it is. Even though Ner’zhul was basicly wiped out from the story at the end of the book “Rise of the Lich King” and I dont think he is mentioned in Wrath of the Lich King at all (Lich King is always refered to as Arthas or just Lich King, not Ner’zhul), Ner’zhul was still very much part of the Lich King’s story until the end of WC3: TFT and it is officially in the lore that Kil’jaeden did this all to Ner’zhul to punish him for his disobedience when he was still orc
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In that case WoW isn’t canon because Blizzard just made reforged which modifies WoW’s lore.
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Ner’zul is still mention even in legion. But in shadowland we have the “new lore” about the lich king and so they modify everything from Ner’zul, Arthas and bolvar
'cause the game he first encountered the Warcraft universe in.
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You were right if blizzard actually doesn’t say that all the project to made the “bridge” between them is cut. So this is only the old lore with few adjustment.
That or they decided that implementing all of that would be difficult and expensive and used the fans as an excuse to renege on their initially advertised content…
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BFA version is still different. In BFA she dashed into Frostmourne. In Reforged she still dies like in Classic.
Because like I said they still have a lot to put in that. Is still something, but still not canon.
Nope they havent…this is completely in the minds of WoWtards who think that every single tiny detail in Warcraft 3 lore should be adjusted to reflect what was added in later…I mean heck I could understand that people would wanted to see the lore additions like what we (atleast partly) actually got in the Silvermoon map, but saying that because of something tiny, insignificant little detail like this is told otherwise in Warcraft 3, that the whole game isnt canon anymore? Thats beyond ridicilous…
I mean heck take for example Star Wars: New Hope and its sequels. In New Hope Obi one tells Luke that Anakin was killed by Darth Vader…and ofc we all know how that was “rewritten” or rather revealed to be in truth in Episode V.
I just took that as comparison for ppl to understand that even if something was explained little bit differently, doesnt mean that the whole damn old lore is suddenly not canon or that it would have even needed to be re-written. The matter of fact is that we simply did not know the details before how exactly Lich King was created, the ONLY thing that we learn during Reign of Chaos/TFT is that Lich King is Ner’zhul and that it was Kil’jaeden who essentially created him and that Dreadlords were tasked to keep him in leash and do what Legion required of him. Thats it. And this is in no way or form conflicts with the current lore.
All I see you lore-fanatics (which I also consider myself) nitpicking about insignificant things, when there would be so much bigger, more important things to complain about Reforged…
As for my point of view whether or not Warcraft 3 lore should have been altered or changed in bigger way, I say again what Ive always said. 99% of Warcraft III’s events have in fact remained UNCHANGED over all these years. I never had problem with adding in stuff they did in Silvermoon map, nor would have I had problem with added Jaina and Sylvanas dialogue, extra cutscenes.
But essentially people who claim about not getting full remake is that aside from those things Blizzard/Reforged team NEVER planned to completely change the story…cause there really was no reason to do so. Warcraft 3’s lore as it is is still much, MUCH more in line with current lore than it is in conflict with the story/lore that was added in since 2003. And thats why I cant understand all this complaining that there should have been major retcons made in Reforged, when the story HAS mostly remained unchanged all these years.
Also the one thing I can say though for having been on these forums since November 2018 that most of WC3 fans dont consider WoW’s events canon and one of the main fears many WC3 fans had back then about even tiny story retcons was that it would forever seal even the REMOTE possibility that Warcraft IV (if we would even ever get it, which we wont) would not in return be able to retcon WoW’s events either completely or partially and that it would forever seal the possibility of having WC IV that would tell better/alternative storyline than what it was possibly to do in MMO.
I mean as much/long as I liked to think that way as well, that ship sailed long time ago and thus I honestly dont think it would have mattered either way whether or not Blizzard’s original plans with Reforged had happened or not. Because chances of WC IV ever happening would be slimmer than us ever getting Half-Life 3 and now after how WC3: Reforged turned out, perhaps it is for the best.