Responding to the 2.0.0 patch notes

General Discussion
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Patch 2.0.0 has been a bit dicey. There are some good ideas present, but a lot of the implementation needs work. I’ve been thinking about going down the list of patch notes and offering my opinions, so here’s that:

This is a great idea in theory. However, looking closely at all of the “HD” textures, it’s very clear that they were upscaled using a rudimentary AI upscaler and given no extra care after that. These textures have been mangled by AI de-noising and just don’t look good. Here are some examples, taken from the upscaled buttons: https://imgur.com/a/6W3VZCd

Classic HD should be its own single toggle. The Reforged and Classic art styles are wildly different, and mixing them does not look good. On top of that, a lot of reforged models don’t have classic counterparts, and even those that do sometimes still pull the reforged model when HD classic is fully toggled on.

Based. We love to see it. However, I think the TFT theme should come with snow on the menu graphics like it did in TFT itself. Right now, it’s still just bare metal everywhere.

This is a great change, I’d say. The 1.32-1.36 UI was not fun, and a return to form of the chat-centric UI of RoC/TFT is very welcome imo. The chat system itself could still use some work though. Prior to reforged, chat channels were numbered (such as W3 En-8). Now, every default chat channel is just named W3 General. Numbered chat rooms made it easier to join the chat rooms that your friends were in. Now, if you want to do that, you have to just keep typing /join W3 General until you get lucky. Aside from that, whispering via chat command is much more difficult, as you need a full battletag, including numbers, the /whois command doesn’t exist as far as I’m aware, you don’t get automated messages from your friends joining games (someone has released a mod that adds this back, but it still doesn’t work exactly like it used to), there’s no /f all or /f m commands either, and when you’re toggling through chat channels to send a message to (pressing tab with the chat input box focused), the only way for you to tell where your message is going is that the font color changes, as the chat input box always just says "SAY: " instead of something like "[W3 General]: " or "[Clan JUB]: ". It would be very much appreciated to see all of these problems resolved.

This is a great idea, but the way it was implemented is not great.
-There’s little to no organization (it would be great to see where each ability lies on the command card when trying to choose the best hotkey for it)
-Some abilities are missing (purge, all items, possibly more?)
-There are 4 copies of all of the tinker abilities, because of engineering upgrade
-There’s no sanity checking (you can bind all hotkeys to 1 single key at the same time)
-For some reason, all of the upscaled classic icon files were duplicated as .png files which are loaded by the webUI, instead of just using the existing icon files

Good change.

thank GOD, we’ve been needing this for so long and I love you for this

I haven’t tested this yet but I’ll be glad if it works, because there are a lot of maps that could benefit from this that are no longer maintained/are still maintained but the creator (for example, me) is too lazy to add a timer to

this is another example of where I wish you guys would be a lot more clear with your patch notes, because what does this mean?

this seems super unnecessary, and even more unnecessary to be disabled by default. who was asking for this?

again, who was asking for this? health bars also put a good bit of strain on performance and should definitely not be always enabled by default for this reason alone

this is a terrible change and should be toggleable at the very least.

I’m not quite sure what the practicality of this is, but I know it doesn’t respect custom UI very well, as noted in one of my bug reports, and there’s also apparently a dead zone that’s not accounted for at smaller UI scaling sizes, meaning that there’s an area of the UI that’s empty and should be clickable but it is not (I don’t have the specifics for this but it may have been reported here on the forums. if not, the hiveworkshop discord has info on this). Side note, the grammar of this sentence is very bad. HUD can now be scalable in the option is not a good sentence.

This is a good change, provided it works correctly (have not tested myself). Also, borders* is the correct spelling of that word.

This is an interesting option to add, but this absolutely should not be disabled by default.

cool, I guess? but it kinda just seems to go through the playlist from start to finish with no relation to where I am in the UI and then at the end it just stops and there’s no music

from what I’ve seen, melee MMR and ranks and such are still totally broken, match results aren’t processing, etc etc.

this was not a good change, and I see that it has been partially reverted, but the way in which it was reverted really underscores the fact that you guys don’t seem to understand how the game works. I see that the most recent patch notes say that the old HD terrains were re-added to the game, but from what I’ve seen, they were just re-added to the CASC archive under different file paths. This would be fine if the world editor allowed for terrains to be picked based on their file paths, like how a unit icon or model works, but that’s not how it works. It’s really hard to remain confident in blizzard’s work on reforged when time and time again, you guys keep demonstrating a lack of understanding in how the game works. This is why I posted a while back that the company would benefit very much from bringing in people from the Hive Workshop, because at this point, it’s evident that we know a lot more about the inner workings of this game than the people that are actually being paid to work on it.

I need some more specifics about what exactly you guys are talking about here, but from what I’ve seen from modders, the lighting changes are not welcome and need to be reverted. I’ve seen several screenshots showing scuffed fog and lighting, and the day/night cycle effects look pretty bad right now.

This has not been fixed. I feel like there’s a patch every few months that says that this has finally been fixed, and yet it never is.

That’s nice and all, but they still aren’t able to actually play the game.

I appreciate your attention to this matter.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Didn’t see this one until after I typed out the critique for this change earlier, but I’m going to leave the earlier critique in this post anyway. You guys should really be reaching out further for feedback than the couple of streamers that you’re talking to at the moment. It really feels like there weren’t any lessons learned from the reforged launch, and having Brad say in the 2.0.0 reveal that “if something is broken you fix it” feels like a slap in the face, because the 2.0.0 patch fixed hardly any of the pre-existing issues and added sooooooo many more.

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This is in reference to the DotA mechanic of you killing your own unit to deny the enemy the gold for the kill. In Dota 2 there’s a little exclamation mark with your player color shown above the unit if you manage to deny it. Dota 1 lacked this (I think?) but it’s apparently now an in-built feature.

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thats not you to decide, what is this draconian law going on with the WC3 community, LET the user decide NOT you or anyone else.

To you it’s not a good change but the majority of users it is, again they should just put a toggle for weirdos that enjoy the garbage old reforged terrain but for the vast majority it’s better for melee maps while using reforged graphics. It makes things visible and fits well with the reforged art and models

I feels for the custom campaign community but don’t ask something to reverted back to something else because you don’t like it, either they add a third options in the menu OR add in a way so that world editor you can toggle between for custom maps but don’t advocate for removing the 2.0 terrain while many people enjoy it

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It’s not up to users. It is a matter of fact that mixing different art styles in a game contributes to confusing/disturbing gameplay and adds visual pollution. It makes no sense at all.

I see you speaking behalf of the “majority”. Who are these? Your favourite streamer, tiktok, influencers that spend their days sat playing warcraft 3? It’s not even about if the majority likes it or not, it’s whether it’s good or not for the game.

Fixed that for you.

The 2.0 terrain is not good, is way less detailed, lazily AI upscale, it needs work. Again I don’t care how many people enjoy it, you don’t even have the numbers to base that claim, it is irrelevant.
There were models and icons that don’t show in custom games, some new UI changes ruined some maps that had to be fixed. I urge more TESTING before releasing something.
I don’t want to see new “nice things” and then 10 new bugs to fix each update.

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Again it is up to the user to decide, if the user likes mixing different art styles that’s THEIR prerogative not yours, and who is it going to confuse/disturb gameplay? themselves :man_facepalming:

It makes all the sense for the user to select what they personally like.

No people I play the game with, a concept I’m not to sure your aware of.

The 2.0 Terrain is BETTER, it better gameplay wise and visually.

Lmao shocked, only care about yourself :+1:

Good thing Blizzard doesn’t care about a single salty individual

Neither do you :clown_face:

Yes and I feels for the custom campaign community but their already rolling out changes in less than a week to fix their situations/help them maybe patience and provided feedback on those bugs :thinking:

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Average user has a peanut size brain, they don’t know what they really want. They might switch gears and say the opposite thing 2 months later, not that it has never happened.
By the way… is Blizzard who decides if the users have options for that, they made the game, not the users so no need wishful thinking.

Sneakly backtracking from the expectation of the word “majority” to avoid the bandwagon fallacy and moving goalposts, nice try. The people who you play with are a minority, you’re not fooling anyone here.

It sure is on that trailer, but it’s not what one sees in the real game :joy:

Have some self-awareness, you’ve been ranting on grapes’ post and can’t admit when you’re simply wrong. Yes, I only care about myself so much that I specifically said

But that went over your head, didn’t it?

Learn to read your own posts. You’re the one making claims about the “majority” liking whatever it is in 2.0. I never made any type of claim that requires numbers of any sort.

I suppose you mean custom game community. custom campaign is a subset of custom games.
One thing is for sure, there can’t be any more disappointment from the current state.

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Self aware much huh ? :rofl:

Your critical thinking skills are in the negatives, :skull:

So let me help you out. I wasn’t just speaking of the people I play with, You mention streamers and other content creators as outsiders because to you and your schizoposting their not part of the warcraft 3 community, nor their voices matter. Which is clownish because they probably give more to the Warcraft 3 community than you have but it’s not only them

Your right the warcraft 3 subreddit community, the WC3 discords, their all the minority :man_facepalming:

and your the one literally backtracking which is absolutely embarrassing

so the majority doesn’t matter nor does the minority matter so only your voice matter :clown_face:

I weep for the stunted clown you are, literally fooling yourself and trying to trick others into enjoying a game your way and not their own way, how absolutely embarrassing.

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Why do you insult him like that? It serves no purpose and actively hurts your arguments. I agree with your actual points but insulting those who disagree with you only makes me believe you don’t trust your own views enough to stand by them when challenged.

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Which one is it? Sounds like contradicting yourself…

You’re so desperate that all you got is strawmanning. I never said they are not part of the warcraft 3 community, but that their opinions are definetely not more worthy than the rest of the players. There’s has been already enough cases where the blizzard team listened to the “melee players” such as Grubby and Wtii as some sort of authority to make game changes. These appear to be such people you worship and follow blindly.

Dodging the question with nonsense no one asked. I don’t think you know what backtracking means either.

More nonsense, is this all you have?
My entire premise is that what matters most is what’s good for the game, and what makes it improve. Not that the majority thinks x should be done, or this and that group want y and z. The ideas must stand on their own and be scrutinised.

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it was in dota 1, it also used the exclamation mark

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I think they just need functioning Normals and ORMs - the things that make HD textures HD; right now there are no properly defined Normals and ORMs and both of them are just one sheet of dark yellow

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Wrda at this point we’re just going in circles, and I don’t know if it’s because your being intentionally obtuse, so I’m just going to wrap this up.

LMAO

Nope I don’t care about Grubby or Wtii opinion when it comes to reforge graphics, for one they don’t even like reforge graphics nor play on it actively so their opinion in this case isn’t really relevant.

I enjoy the new tileset and terrain for reforge models, they work great in melee games with reforge model and for the campaign with reforge models/graphic, others enjoy them for custom games were you can mix and match them with old hiveworkshop models using the HD models.

That’s the main crux of were we are at in impasse, this update is what’s good for the game long term, it allows users to select a preference of options for how they want to play the game, it improves visual clarity for gameplay while using reforge models in large battles (which is why folks that mainly play reforge melee games enjoy the the new terrain update). The update also allows users to use the HD models and HD terrain which works with old models from hiveworkshops for custom games and keeps those old models still relevant with HD settings

The only folks really suffering from the downside are those that have made custom campaigns for reforge, and I genuinely feels for them. But I think long term this update is what’s best for the game. I hope they add a 3rd toggle so folks that enjoy the old reforge terrain can use it.

But that’s not the majority, let’s try to think this rationally for a second,

The melee community enjoys the update, the custom game community enjoys the update, the campaign players enjoy the update. who’s exactly is left? custom campaign, which not to downplay what happen to them because it sucks, but that’s not the majority, when you combined the other 3 factors.

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who? :thinking:

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btw, anyone can do so with the Materialize program, however it can be a bit difficult in determining where you will bring the height level, and the uhhh “intensity” of the Normal maps and as well as the Roughness layer

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I agree that the user should have a choice.

In multiplayer games, the visibility / readability of graphics is actually more important than their artistic style.

But if you’re using terms like “weirdos” or “garbage,” take a look at this screenshot:

imgur .com/a/lqgiymZ (remove space from address)

This screenshot is NOT from the custom map, but the standard The Frozen Throne campaign.

This shows that not only the user should have a choice, but the map maker as well.
Some maps were designed with a certain style of art, and they look very bad when you change their textures.

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imgur.com/a/lqgiymZ

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