Public Test Realm 1.31

General Discussion
41

Blademaster windwalk could use a nerf to 3 seconds cooldown after breaking Wind Walk.
Reduce the mana cost of Mirror image by 50 to promote its use.

1 Like
42

Honestly I assume you guys aren’t aware that you can sacrifice skeletons for stuff like the Dagger and Unholy Frenzy. If you make Skeletons un-sacrificeable(for example, make them not Undead units) both the Dagger and Unholy Frenzy would actually be balanced.

Also please don’t listen to the people who want BM nerfed even more. Orc was originally designed with the idea of being carried by BM. Their units compare poorly vs other races because what they do is they keep BM alive or buff him, example Raiders allow BM to keep focusing one unit, Spirit Walkers + Shadow Hunter allow BM to survive much longer, and Kodo Beasts boost his damage. Once you nerfed BM(took his agility away and nerfed Crit strike) Orc, which was built around BM, immediately became the worst race. I think you should put him back to his 1.26 version.

1 Like
43

I definitely do NOT want 300-400 crits back, holy sht.

Edit: I think, this was all about the NE vs Orc matchup because huntress win so easily but this is definitely the wrong the direction, we all want nightelves nerfs, even the professional players like Moon want nightelves nerfs.

To make it clear, I’am thinking of huntress HP and/or damage nerfs, because there is mostlikey an expansion in the background, so they have too much value in masses. And Moon glaives for T2 also seems way too good.

2 Likes
44

DK and Orb of corruption are the main reason for the current stagnation in UD strategy.

  1. DK was the only healer (now solved, thank god)

  2. Orb forces UD to have bad unit stats and weak heroes for balance reasons, and also locks UD into single target lich-based gameplay.

While the dagger helps by allowing non-DK first heroes to be viable, we might still see pro players using DK-lich 100% of times… just with dagger now.

Orb of corruption still needs to be functionally changed to something other than a single-target armor reducer. Make the effect less discriminatory and lich-dependent. An orb that works well with ALL units will enable more meaningful buffs for unused/unusable UD units, while toning down the tier 3 timing which is much too powerful and works against almost anything.

Why would UD players consider diverse strategies and expos when there is a Hail Mary “tier 3 orb timing” strat that outperforms all other UD strats… even in mirror.

1 Like
45

What does the obs thing mean?

46

i won’t say change completely because custom maps use it :innocent:

would be better to add a new orb instead and leave the old orb unused (and unchanged) for map makers.

on another note: 11/10 Update, i like it very much, alot of new toys and addons that really make melee fresh and give mappers alot to work with.

1 Like
47

I think, I speak for alot of people, when I say, I have strong and deep desire for nerfs to the nightelve race.

2 Likes
48

Orb of fire change = guaranteed hero kill against bm/sh or dk/lich… you basically need to invul or TP against every storm bolt now. Blizzard makes moba games too, how the hell is 50% a reasonable amount of healing reduction for an auto-attack passive effect?

Is orb of fire 1000 gold now? Though tbh that would still be OP.

It’s basically dealing 300 armor ignoring damage against an enemy hero every time there is a holy light/coil.

3 Likes
49

While I’m not much of a ladder player, I know how much this means to Undead players. Very big effect, this’ll have. Cheers!

2 Likes
50

When should we expect to see more maps from other terrains other than the disgusting overused Lorderan Summer and its creeps?

1 Like
51

There must be another cool effect for the human orb, unfortunate I can’t think of anything that hasnt been done already or is already used. : /

Honestly, it could also be some kind of buff, without stacking and damage, when you attack your own units once, that would be cool and unique.

but denying healing effects is way too good with stormbolt and combinations.

52

Here are a few thoughts about 1.31 changes:

  • Sundering Blades:

    • Icon: I don’t see what it is supposed to represent? A shield? If so, why is it a shield and not a sword?

    • Attachment effect: there is a visual glowing effect on Knights’ swords once the upgrade has been researched. It is good that a visual effect is applied to show when a unit is upgraded, however, I think this one is too much, too noticeable. It looks like Knights carry torches. It would look better if that glow wasn’t permanent but periodic instead (like glowing every 10-15 seconds)

    • In game: AI doesn’t seem to research Sundering Blades upgrade.

  • In Unit and Doodads Palettes, it’s great to be able to search for an object by typing in its name. However, in Unit Palette, it’s not very relevant, because it only searches within the race and category (melee/campaign/custom). If I search “priest” when Human Melee is selected, I’ll get one result only, human priest, I won’t get troll priests for example. This features isn’t very useful, because one can already select priest by using the regular priest icon, which is faster than typing+clicking, unless there is an insane amount of custom units. This search feature should allow us to search any unit, regardless of its category and race.

  • No GUI support for damage detection and UI customising. That’s a big desillusion for me. Any plans to make them GUI-friendly in the near future?

I must confess that I expected more from that patch. Not that it’s a bad patch obviously, but it contains mostly features that cannot be used by beginners: LUA, new natives with no GUI support, UI customisation. Apart from those, it’s mostly quality of life improvement (Tooltip previewer is awesome) and balance changes, which I’m all for, but it doesn’t bring anything actually new. I’m very happy for those who can use those features, because they master WE more than I will ever do and they will create amazing projects, yet I can’t help being disappointed because I hoped I could do more amazing things in WE but there is barely anything for non-programmers. Even though the majority of us uses GUI… So I really hope those new features will be made available in GUI, for those of us who don’t have a clue about coding.

53

That’s because the default AI has not been updated yet. I imagine it’ll be updated to know about the Sundering Blades upgrade closer to release. ATM the AI does not basically even know the upgrade exists.

54

Does this mean that it‘s a subject to change or it may not be possible to play with Open GL in the future?

55

Well, I think the ritual dagger is pretty expensive for two charges.
The idea is actually pretty genius because it helps the fragil T1 expansion with ghouls against a push with AM and mercs for example, which is “pretty tough” to hold. Furthermore it helps the gargs and ghouls strat with more sustain, I mean technically it gets rid of the problem that gargoyles are absolute trash.
Skelletons from necromancers will still die to detonates and disentchants and priests dispells, even with the dagger.

For now I think, in a standard game with DK fiends and a rod, investing the gold in fiends and tech is just better. 125 for a dagger isn’t nothing and a rod still cost 150. It may has its plays for the super lategame with 60-80 supply armys with fiends, destroyers and banshees, sacrificing a banshee here and there, but without an expansion, I would still go for a unit rather than a dagger. : /

So my conclusion is: Very good for ghouls’n gargs with expansion of course. Not so usefull in a standard game (without expansion) since actuall units are most likely better.

56

I have a challenge for everyone in this thread. Try to come up with a new mechanical ability to make knights relevant, something that could maybe fix their issues more than just a “15% damage buff vs medium armor”.

The constraints should be: Create something that is mechanical, that is, it has a unique ability, be it passive or active, that doesn’t simply increase/decrease statistics. And try to come up with an idea that doesn’t require any new models/animations/etc or just minimal ones like the glowing attachment effect for sundering blades.

And for bonus points, try to figure something out for abominations too. Because giving them feast and doubling their disease cloud really didn’t turn them into useful units whether in 1v1 or 4v4.

Knights and Abominations have some terrible symmetry against Tauren and Druids of the Claw. The latter two both have powerful abilities that distinguish them as significant upgrades over lower tier ground, capable of carrying more than just their linear statistical values in combat. Tauren have pulverize and can be reincarnated, druids have roar and rejuvenate. Knights have no mechanical skill, abominations have the very mediocre feast and disease cloud. I think designwise, Knights are flawed from this concept designers might have had about their uniqueness being ‘high armor’ or ‘high speed’- they are just numbers. There’s very little to distinguish between being a 985 hp unit with 11 armor and a 1200 hp unit with 6 armor; the EHP is the same. It just makes you more effectively healed and more vulnerable to spell damage. And with 350 speed, they aren’t even that uniquely fast. Orc/UD armies run laps around them

1 Like
57

That’s a lot of changes and most of them are welcomed by me. The rest has to be tested.
Great job guys

58

Please keep the nerfed version of the critical strike. I know a better idea to buff it for reforged: Every time the blademaster lands a critical strike, the orc recieve
1/10 of a witch doctor potion. If the potion is full, it unlocks a lootbox.

59

But you then added a new upgrade Sundering Blades . Now if a player wants to go knights they’ll have to research 2 upgrades from the same building they train knights. These two upgrades could be merged or Sundering Blades could be moved to blacksmith or it could be just passive without needing to research.

60

There’s no requirement to research upgrades just because they exist. It doesn’t make knights worse to have that option. It is inarguably a buff to knights- they got more HP before you research animal war training, and they got a buff against medium armor if you choose to research sundering blade.

However, its not the solution the developers need to look for, to make knights viable and fill a niche of ‘countering’ ranged units. Knights already have huge statistical advantages over ranged units, they just have horrible disadvantages by virtue of being melee units with no mechanical effects.

Just to put some numbers to it. A knight has 50221 EHP x DPS for 245/60/4/40, or 3139 EHP x DPS/Food^2. A crypt fiend has 14586 EHP x DPS for 215/40/3/30, or 1621 EHP x DPS/Food^2. And the knight deals 172.5% to a crypt fiend, the fiend deals 100% to the knight. In effect, the knight is 3.34x more efficient than the fiend in a head to head fight (2.9x before sundering blades)

Do incremental statistical bonuses actually make the difference here?

No. What matters is the inherent restrictions of melee vs ranged combat, vulnerability to getting hit by frost nova, slow, ensnare, nukes, cripple, etc. Getting bodyblocked and needing to path around buildings and fighting in choke points. What matters is that a fiend has web and burrow, while a knight has nothing. The same comparison goes for knights against other units, its nothing exclusive to fiends.

Knights, like Abominations, need an ability.

2 Likes