any updates on12 unit cap selection at once ?
3 Likes
I am in favor of a dispel item for UD at tier 2 (wand of negation or something).
Then the Aboms and Meat Wagons will become dead, with the Undead race probably buffed overall because Banshees would be easier to get. Not good.
hi Kaivax,
will you improve
- Archmage’s Blizzard skills that AOE rain the ice shards comes with cold slow effect?
- water elemental to have cold slow effect (after level 2/3) (similar example are FS wolves have critical strike after level 2/3)
reason:
-undead frosty can have a cold damage because cold damage and slow enemy unit
-undead lich -frost nova can have cold damage and slow the enemy unit
6 Likes
statues and spirit walker 600 mana pools is insane OP.
statues literally unlimited mana to heal and mana . it should be reduced to 200
while spirit walker is literally able to keep resurrect of tauren
1 Like
The recovery ability of NE’s spring wells should be nerfed. It is to imbalanced against Human in the early and very late stage, one of the most imbalanced race matches.
6 Likes
i agreed with u. the moonwell healing should be like slowly heal until full health instead of INSTANT HEAL.
6 Likes
You can’t say something like “blizzard is ice, so it should slow down units”. Your arguments should be balance-related. I think blizzard having slow would be broken, blizzard is pretty good as it is. Unless is something very low, like 2-3%. But I would rather see a buff (or two) on flame-strike than on blizzard.
As for the WE suggestions, I dig it. AM gets bullied a lot. Even if he is lvl 3 and the enemy hero is lvl 2 (especially if the enemy hero is lich or DH). Although it may not be a good idea (cause it may be too strong), it could be tested with small numbers, like 10%, or maybe 5% but stackable if 2 WE hit the same target.
But I have to be honest… I’m probably in favour of testing these changes only cause I’m a HU. On the other hand, on previous patches we already saw broken koth, broken DH, broken CL, broken HH… maybe it is time to have broken AM (we also had broken MK, but that was not an “early game broken”)
3 Likes
Exactly. The new immolation in 1.35 and the new Warden in the next patch have already broken the game balance. It won’t be any worse.
2 Likes
Yes, making healing from fountains not instant would be a good change. Because any other race spends gold and/or time on healing. Here, no resources are spent, and healing is instant. This can break the game in some situations. For example, the Demon Hunter disrupts the Human expansion, damages units, loses HP, uses Town Portal, and immediately runs back. By the time the Demon Hunter is fully healed, the Human can’t do anything, whether it’s building a shop or healing up. Or in battles, staff healing and returning on the personal staff . Only Elves can do this trick. It would be good to make mana regeneration from fountains, say 50 per second or 100 per second. So it takes about 5 seconds to fully replenish a hero’s.
For all other races, healing takes half an hour, is paid, and can be interrupted.
Or, for example, let’s imagine giving fountains to Humans and having Elves build farms and healing scrolls in the shop. That’s fine with me 
It would be nice to slightly weaken the fountains.
Elves have a lot of free resources. Mana in fountains, healing from the mine, healing from eating trees. Regarding the mine, you could make the primary tree cheaper by 50/50, but surround the mine with 50 gold and 50 wood. This would make it easier to set up an expansion, but mine healing would be paid. Eating a tree costs 10 gold. Because any other race spends resources on subsequent healing or uses mana for summons during creeping. Here, it’s free again. Make eating a tree cost 10 gold. The primary tree is cheaper by 50 gold and 50 wood, but the cost of surrounding the mine is 50/50. Also, make mana regeneration from fountains and mana pumping 50 per second.
4 Likes
remove orb of venom stacks. this orb can not get stacks. imagin if you stack 3 Orbs of Corruption ( -12 armor , totally unfair)
The poison damage is 9 damage per second.The Orb of Venom has the highest damage output of all orbs
9 Likes
You completely stopped working, didn’t you. Is a feature not developed and the modification point data still not updated? Is this the only amount of work that has been delayed for a month? I thought you were changing the game to Unreal 5
nerf moonwells and reverse the +25% manaregeneration, or whatever the hell it was, back to how it was originaly and on top of it, nerf the hell out this … supercool … demonhunter and make him have AT LEAST -1 basearmor.
what info has been given to us that would have you thinking they’d be restructuring war3 to run on unreal5?
This is sarcasm. It means that their team’s work efficiency is extremely low!
maybe if you insult them some more that’ll fix things
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And how would you like to compensate that in UD vs Elf match up? Exactly? Considering it being the most broken mu of the game?
1 Like
One thing I definitely notice with most WC3 viewers/players are that they don’t care about balance of the game. They just want things nerfed to the ground or just repeat whatever their popular streamer/caster states.
Truth is:
NE vs UD is the most imbalanced MU in the game. And there’s too much data to point it out now (using w3champions data supplied through MMR comparison).
PCG (Undead) recently beat Moon (Night Elf) doing a ‘Nerubian Tower Rush’. PCG isn’t the same level as Moon. I’m sorry but this is becoming a meme at this point in tournaments.
Kaho lost to 120’s Nerubian Tower Rush in tournament recently too.
Colorful lost multiple times to 120’s Nerubian Tower Rush in both tournament and in ladder.
A four minute tower rush in which even with perfect scout, the top players of the race struggle to win afterwards. If the Elf survives, Elf is way too behind in tech because Nerubian Tower is a 5 fortified armor building (hence forcing Huntress Hall + Protector + Glaive which delays tech too much). Not just that, all the moonwell juice gets drained resulting in the Elf to have no map control afterwards. If the Elf doesn’t survive, the Elf just loses.
Then there’s the tier 3 ghoul frenzy push. The current ghouls with ghoul frenzy is way too powerful. I notice buildings crumble faster than siege engines in the game. That’s not right. Competitive players have repeatedly pointed out that the time to upgrade the skill needs to be increased and the % needs to be decreased. Both needs to be done.
Then there’s UD tier 1/2 expansion. UD as a race can compete against 2 base Elf. Now that UD can also expand, once UD is able to expand, Elf doesn’t have answers in a strategy game to some of the strats which open up. It does not help UD gold mine is too cheap on resources to build up relative to Elf’s gold min AND UD ‘roots’ the gold mine right away while Elf has to both create a Tree of Life AND THEN wait for the ‘rooting’. The gold difference is too much by the design of the two races in the competitive scene currently. It’s stupid.
Then there’s gargoyles. Gargoyles absolutely need to be nerfed in the current setup. It only costs 30 lumber on a race which has ease getting lumber (due to ghouls being super efficient). In 2 bases, it has no counter in the game for Elf.
This is incredibly poor game design. A strategy game shouldn’t have a unit which can easily be massed which has no counter in the game for another race. That’s objectively a horrible game. And this all opened up because of the fact UD can easily expand at tier 1/2 vs Elf in the game; a strategy Elf in general has no answer to with the current game design.
If anything, this PTR should address the biggest matchup imbalance in the game first. UD vs NE seriously needs addressing.
Once the game is more fair, then sure we can dive elsewhere but in the current stats from amateur and up, the matchup is quite extreme in imbalance. I’m sick and tired of “it’s just Happy” argument. I am thankful w3champions exist because finally, there’s actual proper data to base off of. And the finding was NE vs UD imbalance is quite universal across the competitive ladder. And across the competitive ladder, it tends to have the highest % in imbalance for a matchup in the game.
4 Likes
I do think moonwells are a bit strong as well. But reverting is not the solution. Before the buff rifle push was deadly vs NE. Since then rifles got better. So, u can tune down a bit, but not revert totally. Maybe, instead of reverting all 25%, revert just 10 o 15% (I would recommend test with just 10%).
The problem with nerfing anything about NE (especially nerfing moon wells, mana burn or orbs) is that the MU against UD becomes even harder. And it is an already unbalanced MU. So, if u nerf any of those things of NE u need to compensate it by giving them or improving a weapon against UD, or nerfing something about UD. Ice tower is already being nerfed. If Nova is nerfed a bit, and maybe Frenzy is nerfed a bit (maybe in time research or something) that could be good enough.
But I wouldn’t touch mana burn. After some thought, seems like a bad idea. And I do hate mana burn, so I would love it to be nerfed, but it is not worth breaking the balance of the game for it.
1 Like
I do think moonwells are a bit strong as well
This is where I am confused.
We had a patch before moonwell buff. Rifle push every game in pro scene with bloodmage 2nd right away just ended the game. With the new rifle buffs, the moonwells are necessary. Otherwise, Elf just crumbles as you state.
Now vs UD, it’s extremely imbalanced in favor of UD. So it makes even less sense in this context.
Vs Orc, w3champions stats and tier 1 tournament stats reveal the matchup is probably one of the most well balanced in the game. In other words, the matchup is fair as it can go.
So by “nerfing moonwell juice”, just what matchup is this addressing? Outside Grubby who mostly plays Dota 2/etc. and comes back time and time again to lose and the constantly whine about this issue, I’m not really sure. It’s also sickening to know that Grubby doesn’t even use what’s the meta in his race. He goes what he wants to for the viewers then complains when it doesn’t work out. That’s not fair. Why should the game balance be decided by someone who doesn’t even play in the pro scene anymore?
If you want to nerf moonwell juice, then sure. Nerf mirror image and serpent wards too again. But you cannot keep the ‘old times’ without removing the new changes.
Truth is, it’s entirely Grubby’s fault he doesn’t really use spells like mirror image this patch. Every other race is using what’s been buffed. Why should someone be entitled to nerf another race because he/she doesn’t want to play what’s been buffed for his/her race?
Also the matchup of NE vs HU is being addressed quite a bit this PTR. There’s a triple (quadriple nerf if the nonsensical mana burn nerf goes through) nerf on Demon Hunter.
Immolation is getting nerfed. Ring of protection is getting nerfed (which is a nerf to Demon Hunter again). Militia duration is getting buffed.
Then also mountain king is getting buffed. Keep and Castle is getting buffed. Late game Paladin is getting buffed.
Do people here just want game to break? We had patches before immolation buff in recent times. Demon Hunter didn’t work vs HU after some of the HU buffs especially on the rifles.
On the patch before moonwell buff, pro scene ended in 6 min with HU just grabbing bloodmage from altar and just tier 2 tower rushing Elf. It didn’t matter if the Elf was Moon or Colorful, the game just ended there. It was completely stupid to watch.
So to the people above, if you really want moonwell nerfed, then sure, just do the following with it to be fair:
- Nerf rifles
- Severely nerf coil/nova, ghouls, gargoyles
- Nerf blademaster’s mirror image and shadow hunter’s serpent wards
if you don’t want to, then you are basically admitting you don’t want a fair game.
3 Likes