I’ve noticed this issue brought up and I’ve come up with a proposed compromise. I’ll see how it is received.
12 unit limit remains for competitive maps.
The reasoning is that WCIII should remain WCIII. Changing mechanics like this might mess with the game and playstyle. While it is understood that it is an old mechanic, I believe that the age of the game is part of its identity, and even minor mechanics such as this shouldn’t be tampered with. I feel the same about the UI changes as well.
The UI is customizable for World Editor, similar to Upkeep.
The original gameplay has similar criticism when concerning the upkeep system, and many modded maps simply disable it. The same ability could be applied to the 12 unit selection limit and perhaps even other features of the newer UI.
The people who suggest to remove it for some modes but keep it for others don’t realize how bad that would be for the game. They either need to keep it completely, or remove it completely. If they try to split it, people will play without the cap and get used to it. Then they will try to go to melee and get frustrated because it is the setting they are not used too.
Im against the cap, but if they decide to keep it for one mode, they need to keep it for all of them
Seriously, F off. Why does something so trivial bother you so much? You’re very attached to this game, I get it. But I have to believe that you’re complaining just for the sake of complaining. If you think reforged is going to be identical to TFT then you are delusional.
Yeah they said it’ll use the same engine. So what? WoW uses the same engine as well. It could mean anything. They already confirmed that bugs and security vulnerabilities will have to be patched, so even if they try their hardest to match WC3’s gameplay (why would they), it’s not going to be identical.
Please stop making threads about this. It’s like asking for the same garbage shop interface with delays and everything programmed in. Or not allowing custom keys. Artificial difficulty and tedium is not giving anyone a better gameplay experience, except for a few people that can’t stand the idea of losing those advantages over newer players.
As for Xelfire, the idea is not simply remaking warcraft 3. In many cases it is clear that they are taking liberties with the campaign, but what many of the veterans are hoping for is that the gameplay remains in tact.
While something like the 12 unit system is trivial, I get it. But if they change it, what’s to stop them from changing something else. I mentioned the Upkeep system. That has always gotten criticism and I’m sure new players will complain about it too. But if we get rid of it, it would change the dynamics of the game.
One trivial thing changed could be accepted by some, but if they change too much, then it simply won’t be the same game. My idea was to allow custom freedom in the editor, since the modding community is strong for WCIII, but keep the core game intact.
i rather say test it out in a beta let other player test how the game plays with unit limit remove and try to make it work for custom game while they test it in normal play
The core gameplay should stay, I agree. But if they can improve pathing, collision, and some old limitations, they should. The original gameplay is not very smooth and I expect it to be improved/optimized. I am not for doing things like altering how attack animations work, or turn rates on units. But pathing? Yes, definitely improve it.
I agree Upkeep should stay. It is one of the mechanics that makes WC3 unique from all other games and is a major component of strategy.
This is not Starcraft, and I think this game attracts a different crowd and gives much different gameplay from Starcraft. Heroes, Creeps, Upkeep, small armies, and expensive units make WC3 unique. I think WC3 has a much broader appeal than SC for these reasons as well. It is easier to macro, slower, more punishing, more active, and a deeper meta game.
Starcraft is a game that is much more about how fast you can click buttons and brute force your opponent. WC3 is a game that’s about pushing the limits of your units and out smarting your opponent. This is why I feel a 12 unit control group limit does not matter in this game the same way it does in Starcraft. I think changing an item in the goblin shop, moving some trees around, or altering a creep camp in any way all have more of an impact.
At least make it WorldEditor option to disable in custom maps.
For example like Azeroth Wars where you can have like 200 unit army and my finger not that long to use all 10 groups. If I need to make fast attack or retreat i must select my army like 10 or more times and order them.
StarCraft for the Nintendo 64 had an 18 Unit Select Limit. It worked quite well I thought. Zerglings were the only thing I ever wanted to select all 400 of when I built them. In Warcraft III I wish I could select all 50 of my Ghoul…or 100 of my Peons ones time (they were slaughtered, and my Enemy couldn’t help but laugh uncontrollably).
I would like up to 24 Units selectable at any one time.
Pathing and collision on the other hand was and can still be good design.
Whether it was thought like this or was some compromise because of technical limitations, it resulted on some final features that are specific to war3 and imo should be kept.
I’m not however totally against a rework of both those things IF AND ONLY IF it is done by a team of talented designers who understand all the ramifications of the previous W3 design and are able to restore the exact same gameplay feeling.
Why rework it if it’s to do the exact same mechanic ? Why not if it can improve some things that we can’t feel player-side (be it improved latency, delay, etc…)
There is a part I have seen anyone (aside from Grubby) mention, however. If they introduce unlimited groups, they would also have to introduce such UI changes as paging. And we haven’t seen whether they will look good.
Well, let me tell you right now. Paging won’t look good and intuitive.
And this is a good thing, because it’ll force player to use control groups, the same way the previous limitions was supposed to do.
On an other side, it’ll greatly help new players to appreciate this wonderful game that is W3 and give them an incentive to improve. And off-course it’ll be a wonderful addition for all of our custom-map players and creators.
Grubby actually answered to EnriqueWR on twitter about carefully increasing the limit between 14-16, which i’ll be honest for me would be a really good addition to the game already. He also talked a bit about it in the Q&A.
This sounds like something a patronizing cult leader would say.
I’m for unlimited selection. We have plenty of macro maps such as LTA and AW that would benefit immensely from it. And normal melee wouldn’t feel the change at all anyway.