I hope they find a way to do this, if they need to release an alternate version of the reforged campaign with re-recorded voice lines. at the very least call the captain falric/marwyn
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At worst they could simple remodel one unit in a prespawned mob to be those characters/upgrade a unit on harder difficulties to be a hero equivalent or upgraded statted unit equivalent
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Not gonna go and find all the reasons why many of us don’t want this.
There are many many threads with both sides of the argument on here now.
But from a lot of the RTS fans of Warcraft who do not wish WoW to influence it’s predecessor that has already been finished and lore established for 17 years.
No. Hands off the Warcraft 3 lore, WoW can stay within WoW.
If they aren’t in the original campaign – no changing the events.
(If WoW claims someone was there - it is only to add backstory to that character within WoW lore. Simple fact remains if they were not in the Warcraft 3 campaign they were not present at said events. Sorry.)
if you want to ADD new characters, then if they want to make new expansion and introduce them – go ahead.
Leave the original events alone.
Muradin being brought back to life in WoW is a perfect example of how WoW destroys the meaning behind Warcraft 3 story.
Completely lost the weight of what Arthas did, how Frostmourne had gained complete control.
It’s warcraft 3: reforged not world of warcraft: reforged. The story should stay the same.
The story stays the same even if you add a character or two in place of generic grunt A
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But Arthas didn’t kill Muradin; he left him for dead. Muradin was struck by the shards of ice encasing Frostmourne. Arthas’ reaction of “oh well” isn’t any less of a jerk move whether or not Muradin survives. That was his teacher and mentor, and he just shrugs it off, no attempt to save him, no sadness, just the icy hatred of the Lich King that makes him a fallen paladin.
And, after that, he definitely burns his own ships, and murders the mercenaries that he hired to do it. Major jerk move, bro.
In the end, if you are a melee player, the changes don’t impact you at all. If you are a campaign player, it adds more maps and a longer campaign. If it is a well-told story, then it isn’t retconning anything, it’s including extra bits. Arthas still purges Stratholme, kills 90% of the High Elves, turns Sylvanas into a banshee. The horde still goes to Kalimdor, saves the jungle trolls, meets the tauren, Rexxar still conquers the Stonemaul Clan. It is still all the elements of the story you love, plus extra maps. If you are a mapmaker, it’s a ton of new assets (models, doodads, spells) to use for free and already in the editor.
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Oh god, why do you all want to add your favourite random characters. Please wowers, leave warcraft 3 in peace.
And all of that will exist without your WoW retconns. This is enhancing current Warcraft 3.
Going back and changing something 17 years old is wrong. That is my opinion.
They are fleshing out characters like Sylvanas, Naisha and others with updated models to give them more prominence. They are also re-designing some of the older maps (included with new building designs) like Dalaran, Silvermoon to look more like WoW asthetics. Anything else like adding Saurfang or new characters INTO an already established Campaign is too far from the original.
As Pete Stilwell already said himself in the DeepDive. They recieved very “divisive feedback”. So they wound it back a bit.
Much like this conversation we are having now.
The decision has been made, for better or worse.
Arguing about it will not get us anywhere.
Plus this is literally going in circles every 2 days the same topic comes up and the same arguments are said on both sides.
Are you crying over the Anasterian model? Or that one of the Paladins has Ashbringer?
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They’re already in the lore, and for the most part the ones that were already added hasn’t hurt anyone.
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More characters = more skin options. If they have a Falric and Marwyn DK skin, then they can be used as random DK models in Melee alongside the female DK. More options is better.
No doubt adding in characters from WoW will have major repercussions in how the story unfolds as a whole but, the events still stay the same if you think about it. Since Blizzard’s primary motivation to make reforged is to paint a clearer picture on how the lore unfolded into the events of WoW, I don’t understand why they should remake the game just for the sake of graphics. That being said, would you not relish at the opportunity to see a fight between Arthas and Anasterian sunstrider during the fall of silvermoon? Would you not want them to include saurfang in the battle of mount hyjal as he helps us defeat archimonde?
Don’t even know who they are, I just don’t want the campaign to be ruined by useless wow content.
You realize there are about 8 missions that are still getting major changes right?
This includes Silvermoon and Dalaran. And we still don’t fully know the fate of the datamined new character models like Anasterian and Thalorien Dawnseeker (wielder of Quel’delar)
You can say that the conversation is over for better or for worse but I’m not sure how much any of us know what those final decisions are.
These characters were already present even before they conceived of an MMO. They just failed to add them into the campaigns for some reason.
Yes, unlike most of these people on the opposite side of the argument. I am fully aware of what is and is not PLANNED (not promised, planned) in Warcraft 3: Reforged.
I am just sick of repeating myself everyday on this forum.
There are literally now about 100 threads where we have this same discussion and they have yet to be moderated so that everything can be in one place.
So this discussion is just getting extremely messy haha
I have noticed once the “WoW Retconn” side of the argument doesn’t like the replies in the thread they just make a new one and try to silence this side of the argument again and again… It’s very exhausting to be a Warcraft 3 RTS fan on this forum.
Half the people pushing for changes do not even fully understand what was on the table to begin with.
They hear the words “scaled back changes from Straholme” as there won’t be ANY change at all, which could not be further than the truth.
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So why don’t you look them up, find out, and try to understand why people are asking them to be added in rather than just knee-jerk and assume the story will change for the worse?
Falric and Marwyn are just the names of the Captains that followed Arthas into Northrend. They were given names in Wrath of the Lich King as a boss battle. They guard Frostmourne in the Halls of Reflection before Arthas arrives.
That’s it. There’s no extensive speaking lines, there’s no massive retcon of them doing anything out of the ordinary. It’s pretty much on the level of us knowing that Arthas’ mount has a name and that it has a different look from the generic DK mount.
-edit- That being said, I am not supporting or denying this suggestion yet. I just think it’s important to discuss what players want to see rather than just remaining ignorant and dismissing it on the basis of ‘any change takes me out of my comfort zone’.
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I realize there is the nostalgia factor when it comes to wc3. I grew up with this game and this is my 1st game I ever played on a PC. So I perfectly understand why anyone in their right mind would be against any changes to the campaign. But the argument that these characters are from WoW doesn’t make any sense. If you have made the effort to read the lore of the game, you would realize that these characters that people are mentioning had huge roles in the RTS games but were never given any appearances due to budget or time constraints. They even had to downgrade their cinematics just so they could fit the game in a disk. I don’t care what they are doing with the current lore of the game but if you feel that it does justice to the campaign story to exclude these important characters who had major encounters with the characters that we love and grew up with, then I am sorry to say this but I feel your heart is not in the right place.
I heard there’s going to be a “Classic/Old” campaign and “Reforged” campaign in WC3R to appease both purists and wowzers
My only concern is implementation, and the fact that Falric has lore conflicts with another character, Luc Valonforth.
Because of this, having the campaign continue to refer to Arthas’ follower as the ‘Captain’ is probably the best solution here, since it’s not as simple as just adding an easter egg character.
Also, there is the matter that this is a good-guy NPC, so it’s not like adding some named enemy NPC that is destined to die; this character has to remain alive. So it’s not like you could have them appear as random enemies that Sylvanas (Dark Ranger) fights in Lordaeron. And as formal DK’s, they don’t really fit fighting alongside Arthas, since no other DK appears in his campaign alongside him.
The only way I see them fitting is in human form, as the ‘Captain’, and frankly that does a disservice to even adding them in the campaign.
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They don’t really need to put all three captains at the same time following Arthas. The only time they would be together is during the last human chapter when Arthas gets Frostmourne.
Luc has dialogue in only 1 chapter where the emissary arrives to order him and the troops to return to lordaeron immediately but Arthas sinks all the ships.
Falric has dialogue in the last chapter when Arthas goes away with Muradin to retrieve Frostmourne.
They can still die in the campaigns just like how Shandris could die in the battle of mount hyjal.
Maybe it’s true that including these captains after all is not really a good idea because then they would need to change voices and remake dialogues( and we all know that’s not happening). So it’s safe to presume that we won’t be seeing any iconic characters after all
How is making the mission “harder” or adding an additional challenge? On the hardest difficulty when storming/going for your last push to the Sunwell, in addition to any other units you now face a fully leveled High Elf Paladin, whom during the fight will use mass revive. Suddenly it’s now another part of the puzzle or mission that must be solved.
If said Paladin was given a name of a WoW character said to be at the fight what does it matter? Pretend it’s generic Paladin #937. And have these “additions” only at higher difficulties so for those playing for story and want their original War3 Purity never need to see them.
Those of us who have tired of same old same old, want harder campaign/missions, these “retcons” as you say represent a fantastic way to both change up the missions in subtle ways and bridge lore.
If your an RTS game who has played Warcraft 3 “forever” that exactly the kind of thing you should want. Sense campaign has more then likely gone stale. Having new twists, utilizing WoW “Retcons” as a means to explain said “twists” or spins is just means to do so.
If these retcons/modifications were instead just “We wanted to change up the campaign missions slightly so players new and old can have a fresh Warcraft 3 campaign experience”.
Another simple example, during Tomb of Sargeras mission, you have two maps, one is defending your base the second is traversing the tomb as in the original mission. The base defense part couldn’t assist the latter, but now it challenges the player to effectively multitask and pay attention to multiple points.
That is kind or style of changes to the campaign I felt was both implied and promised. And why I spent money on this game (that I figured I also get access to original games too. But I spent money instead of just digging out my old copies of TFT and Reign because I felt promised a new experience)
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