Many threads about LORE/STORY/CHARACTER difference WOW-WARIII

The cannon lore: A personal analysis
This thread is one of many threads in the forum that discusses the Lore/story/character differences between Warcraft III and WOW. This we’ll become a heated argument. But an unavoidable one, there is a Warcraft III fan/player base, a WOW base, and a WARIIIWOW combination player base.

For all these different groups there are different views on what should be done. This indeed is a discussion about what fictional adoption of the Warcraft Universe is cannon, and what is not.

I, myself am a Warcraft III fan, and thus dislike the WOW adaptation of Warcraft. Now that is cleared out. Let’s contemplate about the discussion ‘an sich’.

The nature of the game
Because WOW, and Warcraft III are different kinds of games, the both of them approach the story and lore differently.
WOW is a RPG, thus you, as an individual, or guild perceive the happenings in the world (and the characters) from up close. Also, you must have the feeling of having impact on the world around you, even though you are but a petty individual soldier in a vast world. This is problematic, you wish to feel significant, thus your impact must be significant. Thus, all main characters from the story, must fall at your (your guilds) hands. This is the main reason why the instants, campaigns in WOW kill of must story characters (or bring them back for that matter). Much like a soap story. The same goes for the shaping of the word of Azeroth.

Thus WOW, will -always - change the perception of the predating lore and insights of the Warcraft III game.

On the other hand. Warcraft III is a game that follows the factions, through the eyes of the characters that lead them. Therefore the story telling is more alike a fantasy epic, the Lord of the Rings does this.
Because Warcraft III predates WOW, the players that played the first, will always feel as though the story got ‘broken’ by the latter. And the players that first played WOW, want to experience the lore they know and love.

Characters
The behaviour, the design, and roll of the Warcraft characters differ vastly between WOW, and Warcraft III.
In WOW, the characters are more shaped by there might and status. Whereas the Warcraft III are more shaped by their actions and personality development.

My personal plea
A very good point is raised by contemplating about differences between Warcraft III, and WOW lore! Indeed it would be a grievous mistake to alter Warcraft III lore in favour of WOW lore.

I can’t emphasis enough, that Warcraft III should be the leading cannon lore for the continuation of the RTS part of the franchise!

Of course WOW would deviate from the brilliant telling’s of War III, you are after all a mere warrior amongst heroes in a larger universe. Alterations in the WOW telling’s were necessary and thus understandable for the emersion of the players. Whoever they do ‘break’ from predating Warcraft III lore, or change the nature and background from characters. They start to act differently than they would have in Warcraft III. The same goes for the overarching story line and happenings in the Universe.

As such: Please keep Warcraft III cannon, and review all future happenings for Reforged, only from the light of the original story!

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I agree! Keep Warcraft III for the warcraft RTS players!

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As I see it, there is no Warcraft 3 or WoW lore, it’s both part of the same Warcraft universe. Calling everything written about Warcraft after 2004 for “WoW lore” is not correct as the Universe was independently developed from WoW in many ways. For example, look at all the book literature written about Warcraft after 2004, you could fill an entire bookshelf with it.

For me personally, I like the stories that are told in the books, in all of the games, but I have preferences for the format in which stories are told. I like the rpg strategy format of telling an epic story. So when people say they don’t like WoW lore, do they mean the storytelling format or do they mean the actual things that happened?

I personally believe that if you were to tell the “WoW” lore in a Warcraft 3 strategy campaign format, they would love it just as much as the campaign we’ve got right now.

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You make a good case. There are different sorces of storytelling. What troubles me are two things:

  1. I’m very nostalgic about the 2002/2004 time of writing, and agitate against the idea that it would be changed.
  2. One, can not assume that people have read, seen, played the other versions, and thus must be gently introduced to changes. To make it more understandable what happend.

I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this.

Not quite. WoW is a separate universe to real fans. the storytelling is very different and a lot of characters exist simply to be turned into future raid bosses. No Warcraft fan would consider that canon. Remember that they’ve already added a Hearthstone race, Tortollan, to WoW. You don’t think of Hearthstone characters as canon do you/

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@ Madkat
You’re right in the sense that WOW differs vastly from Warcraft III. The very notion of some of the WOW events, would be unthinkable in Warcraft III. I’m hoping that the developers know ways to please the old Warcraft III fans, while at the same time improve in a way that respects the original.

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Players can’t choose what’s canon and what’s not just by their preference. It’s a fact that everything that has happened in WoW, has happened in the Warcraft Universe. Everything that has happened in canon literature, has happened in Warcraft Universe. You can’t just choose the things you like.

However, this doesn’t mean that WoW even has affected Warcraft 3 that much. WC3 still has the same story and it stands pretty well on it’s own. Just because you don’t like either the type of storytelling or the actual events of WoW, I just don’t see how they are going to ruin WC3’s story…

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They sure can. WoW isn’t canon just like Diablo 3 and Diablo Immortal aren’t canon. That was easy.

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They sure can. WoW isn’t canon just like Diablo 3 and Diablo Immortal aren’t canon. That was easy

What canon constitutes is an pseudo-agreement between Blizzard and the Fan Base.
Blizzard makes the canon and the only way we can change that is by protesting it in large numbers (see Medan), and while there are a lot of players who don’t like WoW lore, there are a lot who do, so for most intents and purposes, most of WoW is canon.

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Ah, you’re right on the process, Blizzard dictates cannonal lore, the same as the church ones did/does.
But, I do not agree about the public bias, WOW is - and always will be - a different kind of game. It changed the perspective of the universe, so to make it work for a new audiance, a new game-play. Thus, Warcraft III should catter ónly for the Warcraft III version of the truth. Let’s not give in to the the mistake that a product must cater for both/all consumer groups. Let’s keep WOW for the WOW players, and Warcraft RTS for the RTS players.
@ Helionprime
Can you agree, on this? Or do you think differently about it?

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What doesn’t make sense at all based on previous games isn’t canon either. You don’t consider the Warcraft movie canon now do you?

That’s totally different case. It was clearly stated that the Warcraft Movie is its own universe as is not canonical what comes to the main universe of the games and novels.

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I’ll just leave this here. You should now understand why WoW isn’t and never will be canon unless they were to make a WoW 2 that was based on WC3. WoW was originally just loosely based on the Warcraft games.

https://i.imgur.com/uS6jEkW.jpg

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Saying that everyone welcoming a large amount of change in how the Reforged Campaign decides to tell the story and what’s being told is not “a real fan” is nonsense.

I think they should go for consistency, clarity and continuity that is in accordance with the literature and all of the games in the Warcraft Universe.

Blizzard ultimately decides what’s Canon and what people must realize is that when making an entire Universe is an iterative process. You keep changing it to improve the Universe and make way for future stories to be written.

There is no “Warcraft 3 truth”, there is no “WoW lore isn’t real”, Warcraft 3 being canon or not does not matter. What matters is the consistency of the entire Warcraft 3 Universe and making way for continuity.

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Thank you, Birrah. Just what I have been saying. And @MADKAT, how is that relevant? Just because WoW’s story is bad or poorly done, it still doesn’t affect WC3’s story.

It depends on the scale we’re talking about.
At the end of TFT we see Arthas sitting on the Throne, but in WoW WotLK we defeat him, he is now dead - I consider that canon.

Do I consider Rotface and Festergut canon? Or that all the ICC villains where stacked in one building and the LK purposely let us fight them 1 at a time in order to see how strong we were so he can kill us and bring us back bla bla bla - no I don’t.

@ Birrah
Yes, it is an itterative process. So maybe, the players should develop alongside it? Is that what you mean?
@ Helionprime
You make the distinction between ‘breaking’ and ‘adding’? And so differntiate what could happen, and what not? I can see the sense in that as well.

That’s already happened, the Classic Game Developer who announced it’s existence at BlizzCon is someone who played Warcraft 3 as a teenager in Highschool. Creating the narrative is not a public decision nor a democracy, it’s decided by the developers who knows how to write a small story that fits into a massive Universe.

@ Birrah
It surely is hearthening to learn the developer has the same bond with Warcraft III, as most of us. And yes, it is them/he, that makes the choices. But, we’re -as a community- are asked to contribute to the development, with our voices. So we do this.
BTW: it think it to be a monumental task for the developer to shape Reforged in a way that will both be commercial sucess, and a fan favoured for the new and old fans of both WOW and Warcraft III.

I don’t think they should retcon the WoW lore.
I think that they can do what “Star Wars: Rogue One” did, meaning they take a unexplored event in history that main lore does not touch upon that much(War of the Spider would be a good one) and just flesh it out.