the hero is gross. I see so many bad players win with him and it makes me sad. My w/r against ud is good unless they play this garbagely tuned hero. spellbreakers cant keep up and dispell costs too much mana to spam against beetles. 50 food army at level 3 is not a good game design. you cant harrass the expo if they make one nerubian tower and pushes against your own expo is too effective. nerf this trash.
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I will admit I was watching UvU the other day and it was hilarious watching them try and make like 4 towers to protect acos and watching them all die over and over to beetles. Its kind of disgusting the impact 45 mana has later in the game rank 3 beetles are just gross.
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“Crypt Lord - Level 2 and Level 3 Carrion Beetles hit points reduced from 330/490 to 275/410, and mana cost for Carrion Beetles ability increased from 45 to 50 across all levels.”
Is the community happy or disappointed with the CL nerf? From a personal level, Blizzard actually implemented my exact suggestion of going with a slight nerf to mana cost (increase from 45 to 50). The nerf to HP in future levels might be a bit much though. We’ll see
Happy said more or less the following:
- these nerfs dont address the principal brokenness, you can still expand and prevent the enemy from expanding too easily
- beetles lvl 1 and 2 still too fast, faster than any tier 1 unit except huntress
- burrow should be researched
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With what kind of tier 1 dispel, Sir? Or are your 1v1s always some kind of dragged out clowneries going 20-30 minutes?
Additional information: Happy is undisputedly the best undead player of Europe.
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One of the OP’d abilities of the game gets like a 10% nerf in mana cost and all of a sudden you find the hero unplayable? Most UD’s still go CL first in my matchups
You got your wish. Crypt Lord was nerfed right back into oblivion and out of the meta within a month after waiting almost 20 years for a buff. Requiring the tier 2 burrow upgrade for beetles is a nice change but the health nerf was completely unnecessary and cripples beetles against dispel in the late game.
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Yes, because dispel is meant to counter summoners in general. The same applies to any summoner late game, because they are supposed to excel early-mid game, and late game summons are most of the time for harrasing bases or scout.
The reason of why bettles should excel both early and late game when they are already one of the best summons early mid is just unjustified.
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Like I said, nerfed right back into oblivion. I’m sure you play human. Here’s ten reasons why you’re wrong.
- It takes FIVE dispels to kill a water elemental and only TWO to kill beetles.
- Water elementals are also a ranged unit that can target air units and sit behind breakers for protection and still do damage.
- Speaking of breakers, you can steal beetles whenever you want starting in tier 2.
- Your three water elementals have more health than six beetles combined
- Your AOE dispels do more damage.
- Last I checked archmage was still in the meta with one of the strongest auras in the game, which also helps him summon more elementals, unlike crypt lord.
- Archmage can also retrain for ice storm while spiked carapace is useless.
- Archmage is an intelligence hero with a larger mana pool.
- Crypt Lord is constantly out of mana unless you stock up on mana pots.
- I’m not even going to start with how broken mass teleport is…
- Thunderclap absolutely annihilates beetles
- You have a tower specifically designed to kill summoned units which is now going to be buffed even more.
Now that I’ve gone through it, I can’t believe how much human players whine and complain…you have all the tools. Thanks for ruining the game for the rest of us. Enjoy your human mirror breaker wars.
While you’re busy whining and complaining why not try banning me again and having my post removed by Blizzard because you can’t deal with legitimate debate and criticism.
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Agreed. Beetles need their HP back. Players suggested to make burrow unlocked by research immediately. No one suggested to nerf Beetle hitpoints, it was always about the fact that the burrow is annoying to deal with.
But not impossible. Undead has to research burrow now, Human can research magic sentry to make Beetle harass pointless. Orc can move their peons into burrows and deal with them easily or just Park 1 caster at home and get free exp from summon harass. UD is already moving away from CL vs Orc because Orc has a big tech advantage and gets to creep the whole map with 2 heroes, while UD is behind in tech but needs DK level 3.
And Human even whined to much to get be able to build 1 tower each base and be fully harass-proof. This is nonsense and complete human bias.
This patch is ignoring the fact that Human has been harassing all other races with Water Elementals for years. In fact it was even Archmage + Beastmaster summon harass against Orc to cancel t2 building. For years. Human is still harassing UD with Footmen + Water Elementals to this day, yet somehow wants to be able to defend everything with 1 tower. This is absurd.
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No, i play orc. All your asumptions and rant againts HU was out of context and completelly pointless, you see. I do think that thunder clap is a joke and that arcane tower buf was un needed and a buff in the wrong direction.
That said, balance is not done without taking into consideration all MUs. All your points comparing beetles and stuff doesnt justify or proofs anything by itself without further context, because a hero can destroy the other 2 races but do ok or bad againts the other, that would still deserve a nerf.
But even worse is the matchup you picked for your face to face comparison is supposed to be ud favourable since ever. Also, stats on w3champ says so, being it nearly the most imbalanced matchup favourable to UD along with orc vs ne.
Not happy with that you start some absurd arguing about breakers stealing summons (yea, thats what they do with ALL summons, tough i think moving the upgrade to t2 was, again, unjustified and uncalled), flat comparing AM vs CL or WEs vs beetles without caring about race or units uniqueness. Of course, completely ignoring beetles strengths because, you know, the quality and viability of summons is related to “haow many dispels it takes to kill them” and “WES can range atack behind breakers” lel.
Look at W3 champ CL 1vs1 stats:
62% againts BM.
55% againts FS.
62% againts MK.
59% againts your all mighty AM and its WES.
47% againts DH, it may be bad vs elf and still deserv a nerf since how much he outperforms other MUS.
53% vs KOTG, and this compensates the dh?
Having a total of 57% wins againts ANY hero. I think its a pretty solid winrate to deserve a nerf.
Some pros played it with some success, like vortix or krav, on casual is stomping, I think the nerf was deserved.
Rant? LoL xdddd funny thing is the few post i did were againts hu, mostly.
i will, if somehow i ever play a random game or so xddd
whaaat?! xddd are you okay man? i mean, seriously, banning what? i did ban and remove your post? wow, i , apart of being a human player whining im also a hacker it seems.
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Also, beetles are a permanent summoned unit (the only in the game) while elementals expire. Beetles are faster etc etc. You can’t compare them like that Wintermute. I agree with you here killusnow.
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1.) no way it takes more to dispel a single unit summoned for like 6 times the mana crazy wonder why that is …
2) A range unit is ranged man dropping some truth bombs what does this have to do at all with the balance of the crypt lord again?
3) I play undead not human but thanks for the tip still doesn’t explain why you need the summon ability to cost less mana???
4) I don’t play human and again random comparisons with no context to matchups or overall game balance don’t mean well anything. Maybe you didn’t know this but water elementals also expire beetles last forever…
5) NOT EVERYONE WHO WANTED HIM NERFED MAINS HUMAN LOL also again not relevant to his balance just you telling us grass is green again
6) You mean the int hero who insta dies to nuke with a mana aura can support his summons skills that cost 4 times as much imagine that. These are not the same hero my man late game CL is unkillable late game AM is death fodder.
7) Bro why are you obessed with human and archmage please explain how the mana cost change which seemed very warranted to all of us has made the hero unplayable because all I see is you crying about human without making a relevant point as t the changes
8) you have now said this 3 times and its just as irrelevant as the first 2 times.
9) how many ways can you say the same thing this is intentional you don’t get to be an STR hero that’s as good at magic casting as an int hero why is this hard to understand?
10) What does this have to do with the mana cost of beetles???
11) cool what does this have to do with the nerf??? that’s right nothing fun fact mk is str hero too probably need mana potions to clap just like cl does hmmm imagine that.
12) bruh there are more than 2 races what are you on about you have no stated a single reason the changes make the hero unplayable you cried about human and repeated yourself over and over without managing to make a single relevant point.
Bruh this is not rocket science we all used and played against the broken version of CL it was too much its now more balance and still HEAVILY used stop crying. Im personally glad it did enough to not make me feel like I had to play CL in undead vs undead anymore thank god.
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Personally, I wish for higher quality beetles, like at a maximum of three, but with a high HP pool and mediocre damage, less spamable but still hard to deal with.
In the end, I believe, the issue is, that the CL is played with both active spells and the passive being, without a doubt, the worst abillity in the entire game.
It can be ignored and almost everything has ranged attacks, so it does practically nothing, besides to the eHP bonus.
A Solution could be, to overhaul the passive/hero, so it has synergies with both, impale and the beetles.
Suggestions have already been made, and it should be a way, where it is not worth it anymore, to play both active spells, but you have to always pick the passive/synergie and one of the active spells.
Idealy also with less all-in potential.
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I kind of agree with monochrome here. I would love to see his passive be a skill that has some value in picking outside of not needing mana for 2 active skills. While I think both the beetle buff and nerfs were so far so good ( the first made them much too good but useable is still better and the nerf made it fair) I would not mind seeing something done with worthless skills on heroes in general like the CL passive. This has the benefit of being something that shouldn’t effect balance in a negative way as I’m sure most the time it will be beetles and impale but having an option to use a 3rd skill would be nice.
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