It's Over Multiplayers

Competitive Multiplayer
1

Leaving Warcraft 3 for now maybe not forever, but for a while.

Hey everyone,

After a lot of thinking, I’ve decided to step away from Warcraft 3 (Reforged) for now. It honestly hurts to say that, because I truly love this game – I’ve spent countless hours on it, both in its classic form and Reforged. The passion is there, the nostalgia is real, and the gameplay at its core is still something special. But let’s be real — the current state of multiplayer just isn’t doing it anymore.

Here’s why I’m leaving (for now):

  • No Matchmaking Fixes: The matchmaking system is still fundamentally broken. Queues are inconsistent, skill balance is often way off, and there’s no clear roadmap or communication on when or if this will be fixed.
  • Leavers & Disconnects: There’s no proper timeout system or punishment for players who rage quit or disconnect. It ruins team games and leaves no fairness or accountability in place. Compare that with other games where a 5-minute reconnect timer and leaver penalties are standard — Reforged is way behind.

I’m moving to Dota 2 for now. At least there, you see familiar hero designs (many are inspired directly from Warcraft 3), and there are systems in place that protect the quality of the game:

  • Leaver penalties
  • 5-minute grace period to reconnect
  • Strong matchmaking
  • Constant balance updates and transparency from the dev team

It just feels like a better use of my time right now.

Final Words

Again, I want to stress this: I love Warcraft 3. I’ve played it since the early 2000s. I’m not leaving out of hate I’m leaving out of disappointment. Maybe one day I’ll come back. Maybe in 2050, they’ll finally fix matchmaking, give AT and RT proper balance, add timeout features, reconnects, vote systems, and all the other basic stuff that modern online games have.

On AT vs RT – And Suggestions I’ve Repeated in the Forums

Currently, AT (Arranged Teams) don’t face RT (Random Teams) in matchmaking and honestly, that’s a good thing for now. Those matchups were often heavily one-sided and frustrating for RT players.

But I’ve mentioned this many times on the forums:
If Blizzard ever brings back AT vs RT, it needs to be done with proper balance in mind. Here are some of the ideas I’ve brought up over and over again:

  • +500 MMR Advantage for RT: Random Teams should get a matchmaking boost (around 500 MMR) when facing organized AT players, to level the playing field.
  • In-Game Voice Chat for RT: Give RT players access to team voice chat. AT teams already have the advantage of coordination — this would help bridge that gap a bit.
  • Pre-Game Planning Phase: Add a short timer before the match starts (maybe 20–30 seconds) where RT players can talk strategy, or positioning. It’s a small change that could make a big difference.

Blizzard needs to support it with real balance tools and features or else it’ll just be another reason for players to quit.

Blizzard Needs to Catch Up – Timeout Systems, Reporting, and Player Accountability

To be honest, I don’t think Blizzard will ever fix basic systems that almost every modern competitive game already has. In other games like Dota 2, you can’t just leave a game without consequences if you do, you get a timeout or penalty. That forces players to think about the team and the match, not just themselves.

In Warcraft 3, there’s no proper system like that. If someone rage-quits, goes AFK, or griefs, there are no real consequences. And the report system is extremely weak basically useless.

In Dota 2, for example, you can report players for:

  • Griefing
  • AFK
  • Toxic behavior
  • Feeding
  • Abusive chat
    …and it actually leads to consequences.

Blizzard really needs to look at how other games handle this and put all those systems together for Warcraft 3. It’s honestly surprising they haven’t done this already — especially considering how Grubby brought a lot of new players back to W3 at one point. That momentum was lost because these basic systems were never implemented.

What Blizzard Should Do:

  • AI Moderation for Reports: Use AI to detect griefing or toxic behavior. Not to ban people outright, but to give temporary punishments — like:
    • Forced to play 3–5 single-player games before rejoining multiplayer
    • Temporary chat bans
    • Matchmaking cooldowns

It doesn’t have to be harsh — just fair and consistent. Right now, people can ruin games and nothing happens.

I honestly hope Blizzard puts these systems in place before 2050, but the way things are going… I’m not holding my breath.

2 Likes
2

Only the weak complain about unfairness, the strong never complain about the environment

3

Lol. Yeah, it’s easy for you to say. You think I don’t have an account at 4900 MMR? I know how people over 4000 MMR get better groups, of course you don’t complain, haha. You love the game the way it is.

4

:rofl: No you dont know, its simple, play against 3x 3k mmr enmey, and you have 3x 2k teammate, when you are 3k mmr player u gonna say matchsystem is broken, cant win with 3x 2k mmr noob, but when u are 7k, the person who says that will become your opponent.

5

I’m just going to say it straight: this happens in 90% of my games. And I know I’m not the only one. I could sit here all day sending screenshots and examples to prove it.

What’s really funny is how so many of you high MMR players – over 4000 MMR – just can’t admit it. You always show off, telling stories like, “I had two leavers and one team killer, but I still won” You guys act like these kinds of games are normal for you, like it happens 90% of the time. But let’s be honest: you’re the biggest liars of them all.

I’ve played both with you and against you. Many times. On my main account and on my alt. And trust me, in most of those games, you had the better team. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I’ve only seen one game where you actually had a bad team and still give a good fight. Just one.

So don’t come here trying to spin some superhero fairytale – like you’re the underdog who always overcomes the odds. We’re not kids anymore. Most people here are over 25 years old. We’ve played this game for years. We’ve been through it all. We’ve seen all the fake “comeback stories.” And we’re done listening to those lies and super hero stories

We’re not stupid. We don’t buy into your stories and fake heroic tales.
So don’t come here with some superhero downfall story that ends with how the hero defied all odds and managed to save the world!

Here are some screenshots showing how 4000 MMR players almost always get the better team.
https://imgur.com/PypXuft
https://imgur.com/MYWmJbB
https://imgur.com/k1pb2GM
https://imgur.com/mhsD1Vv
https://imgur.com/U6gBkYF
3vs3 https://imgur.com/WWn5kHL
I have a lot more pictures, but it’s just frustrating to upload all of them just to prove a point to liars like you. It’s a waste of time and energy.
https://imgur.com/a/JKKmSU2
Check this one out three players over 4000 MMR. Best picture. I love this one.
If you still don’t believe me and want more proof, I’ve got plenty more pictures. I can post them all day if I have to. I’m sure many others could post the same kind of screenshots too.

https://imgur.com/sPpHMXl
Here’s another screenshot this time with players over 6000 MMR. Sure, he had a 200 MMR player on his side. But let’s be real: that guy only starts playing when he sees his friend on the same team. And everyone knows the legend Cola the guy with the biggest ego in the world who controls him. When his main race gets mad, he needs to go on a hunt. We all love him for that.

But here’s my point: one team has over 4427 more MMR than the other. Just look at it.

Now, after seeing this picture, he’ll probably try to defend it, saying stuff like, “Yeah, but he’s like that…” etc. I’ve been like that too when I was 17. But I grew up. I learned. These guys? Still stuck in the same bubble.

Honestly, I feel sorry for them.

1 Like
6

Your photo is meaningless. In each game, the probability that the opponent’s team has a higher score than your team should be 50%.
Assuming the average mmr in this game is 3500, if you’re a 2500 mmr player, your team’s total rating will be about 1000 points lower than expected every match. Naturally, you’ll get the feeling that the opponents are all much stronger. But if you’re high mmr player, your team’s total rating will usually be higher than the enemy’s in most games. Complaining just means you’re not good enough yourself. It’s like the UD cry baby on this forum. (check post [Undead being abbandoned], our rank1 ud player crying about ud too weak :rofl:)But I played UD for just one week and already reached over 6600 mmr, surpassing all the UD players on the leaderboard. So, is UD really too weak, or are the ud players just not good enough?
You claim you have a 4900 account, Why don’t you keep climbing the ranks then? According to your logic, you should always have strong teammates, so ranking up should be easy. By the way, I’ve met many people who think they play better than me, yet have only a 30% win rate in 500 games — it’s simply because they don’t have good teammates. Unfortunately, people with self-awareness are always rare.

7

your entire post is a goldmine of contradictions and ego-stroking. Let me break it down clearly, so even someone hiding behind 6600 MMR like a security blanket can follow.

“In each game, the probability that the opponent’s team has a higher score than your team should be 50%.”

Yeah, in a perfect system with perfect balance. But that’s not reality and definitely not this game’s matchmaking.

If you’re 2500 MMR in a system with a 3500 MMR average, your team will constantly be 1000 MMR underdog that’s not “even odds.”
Now divide that over 4 players? That’s a 4000 MMR advantage on the enemy team total. You’re pretending like that’s small? That’s literally game-breaking.That means it’s like having one extra player on the enemy team with 4000 MMR basically turning the game into a 5v4. Maybe that’s the only way you’ll understand how massive that gap really is. You narcissists keep making excuse after excuse just to make yourselves look good. Hopefully now you can see how massive the gap really is , but I doubt it. People like you always block out reality and find some new way to defend yourselves, no matter how broken the system is.
How dumb do you have to act to ignore that?

You say:

“Complaining means you’re just not good enough.”

Cool, then what are you doing right now? Because all I see is someone defending broken matchmaking just to protect their ego and reputation in the forums.

Let’s be realyou’re not defending balance because it’s fair. You’re defending it because you benefit from the mess and want to keep the image of “top 10 player” intact. You want to be able to say, “See? Look at my MMR, clearly I’m right.”
Nah, man. That’s not proof that’s cope.

You mention the #1 Undead player crying about the race being weak, then flex that you played UD for one week and hit 6600.
Do you even hear yourself?

If you stomped to the top in a week, you just proved that race is busted under the right conditions. You literally validated the complaint you’re mocking.

Congrats you played yourself.

You act like you’re defending matchmaking or balance, but what you’re really defending is your ** image**.

You’re not here to argue the facts you’re here to make sure people see you as the “wise veteran,” the “top player,” the “one who tells the kids how it is.”
But … we’re not 14. You’re not schooling anyone. This isn’t Fortnite. This isn’t League. This is a dying ladder system with broken matchmaking and you’re trying to gaslight people for noticing.

We’re not stupid.

Final Advice

If your goal is to farm kids and feel superior, maybe you should go play LoL or Fortnite.
Here, we actually discuss systems. And yeah, we’ll call it out when the matchmaking is hot garbage.

So next time you want to flex that you’re better than everyone cool. Do it.
But don’t pretend that the system isn’t broken just because you happen to be sitting at the top of the wreckage. And actually, my pictures do make a point. The fact that you instantly turned proof into some kind of weird defensive mechanism just proves what I said earlier no matter what evidence you’re shown, you’ll twist it to defend yourself. You literally proved my point while trying to deny it. That’s the funniest part.

You started this thread like every typical ladder narcissist does flexing MMR, ignoring the real issue, and twisting every piece of evidence into a personal ego boost. You keep up :wink:

8

Unfortunately, noobs are always clueless and always find excuses.
When 2500 and 7k player both search game, the opponent’s expected mmr difference is 4500, so 2500 mmr players always complain that their opponents are too strong. That’s completely normal—there’s only one reason: being bad.
Do you even check post [Undead being abbandoned]? Our rank1 ud player crying about ud too weak, maybe he try to find a reason why he hasn’t reached 6k mmr after 1k wins, but for me, only need 100 games, I am 6600mmr with 85%winrate, farmore better than any other ud player on the leadboard, so, is ud weak? :rofl:
I’ve encountered you before—your skill is so poor that you don’t even dare to face high mmr players and just quit. So it’s no surprise you’d make posts like this.

9

Lutz, at this point, you’re not even debating you’re performing.

You wait until someone expresses frustration with the system, then swoop in late with your usual routine:

Mock the player
Flex your MMR
Twist the topic into a personal showcase
And then frame everyone else as delusional while you position yourself as the “truth-speaker”

It’s not just cringe, it’s textbook narcissism.

You ignore actual arguments because they don’t fit your narrative. When someone shows evidence like I did with screenshots and math you don’t engage with it. You deflect, spin it around, and then somehow make the conversation about how great you are.

You mocked the top UD player someone ranked #1 — for speaking honestly about hes feeling.

You constantly say people “just aren’t good enough” if they’re losing even if they’re stuck in obviously unfair matchmaking systems. Because in your mind, nothing can be wrong except the players who aren’t you.

But here’s the real kicker:

You didn’t join this thread to talk about balance, or matchmaking, or to help anyone.
You were just waiting waiting for a moment to jump in, push your little narrative, flex your rank, and do what you always do:
Make it about you.

You accuse others of being “crybabies,” but you’re the one who can’t stand when someone posts something that threatens your illusion of superiority.

You say self-awareness is rare you’re right. And you’re Exhibit A.

So go ahead, post another response full of MMR numbers and sarcastic emojis, and pretend you “won” again. But we all see it now:

You’re not here to debate. You’re here to defend your self-image.

And you can have it, because no one else wants it.

Why should I even look at that post?

I don’t care about race balance, or which race is stronger than the other. That’s something solo players always argue about. I don’t waste time on small issues like that.

What I care about and what I’ve been talking about is the matchmaking and how broken it is. I’m talking about the fact that we need timeouts, because games are constantly being ruined by leavers, AFKers, and unbalanced team setups.

But somehow, you still find a way to twist everything for your own benefit. It’s actually insane how narcissistic you are. No matter what someone brings up, you instantly change the subject and turn it into some kind of flex about your MMR or winrate, just to boost your image.

You’re not actually discussing anything you’re just using the forum to show off.
Do you even check all the image?

doing the classic narcissist routine:

  • Ignoring the core points
  • Pretending the system is fine because he’s doing well
  • Flexing rank as if it ends all debate
  • Belittling everyone below him
  • Mocking others who criticize balance
  • Twisting every reply into self-promotion
10

Obviously, even an elementary school student will understand the meaning of random.
In a RT 4vs4 game, what is the probability that the top 4 players will be grouped together? 1/8, so if your play 80 games, when you are one of the bottom 4, you will encounter this situation 10 times, and when you are in the top 4, you will never encounter this situation.
So what’s the point of a few pictures? Do you know what random is?
By the way, just complaining without improving your own skill will never make you strong, just like our top1 ud player, complaining about the weak race/strong opponent is the most boring thing.
Game is ruined by AFKer, teamkiller, but sure not by leaver, unbalanced team setup.

11

You do know that there exists people that know statistics? No point in lying about numbers since its easy to check: the chance that the 4 best players get on the same team is 1/70, not 1/8 like you incorrectly state.

No. You can expect that 1.14 times out of 80 will the 4 best be grouped together assuming the teams are balanced randomly.

And if the 4v4 matchmaking is balancing teams by randomness then just lmao.

12

I recalculated it, and the actual probability is 1/35. That means if you play 100 games, you can expect to encounter this situation about 3 times. I haven’t done math in a long time — the 1/8 calculation was a bit of a naive assumption. I just simplistically treated 3/7, 2/6, and 1/5 all as 1/2.
Matchmaking is balancing teams by randomness is not really bad. Because the mmr gained from a win and the points lost from a loss are not the same, and given the skill level of BN players, playing against opponents of the same level does not lead to improvement. Clearly, a completely random matchup system is more balanced, more casual, and more fun.

13

Yes. I should have clarified i meant for team 1. For either or it is 1/35.

Only thing thats for certain is that it is more casual. The fun part here is subjective. There is a reason ranked systems are popular in games: because competition can be more “fun” than casual play.

The problem is that the bnet matchmaking is presented as your typical ranked experience, where you expect that your opponents/ team will be of equal skill. Clearly, in 4v4, it is more of a random matching system. There should be a casual que and a ranked que to fix this problem.

14

This could be the easiest solution for them, but even then the matchmaking is still bad, and there is no punishment for griefing. I personally hate this matchmaking. I even have a 70% win rate, but it’s not about winning and losing, it’s about the fact that I play low-quality games 90% of the time (low-quality games for me mean that I play against players that are much worse than me or much better than me)!!! I just can’t believe how they are not doing anything about it, also, they are not even mentioning it anywhere.

1 Like
15

Yes. I would love for my teammates to wish me cancer and tell me to kill myself in voice chat rather than in text chat lmao

16

You can just mute them if they are toxic.

17

Most of us here aren’t 10 years old anymore. We’re not even 20.

complain about what someone said to you? Come on. . I can handle words. I can deal with someone having a different opinion. It’s part of being an adult.

But here’s the problem:

Matchmaking isn’t working that way.

Players with over 4000 MMR often get grouped together in the same matches, The system isn’t randomizing everyone equally it’s prioritizing speed over balance.

It’s very rare to see one 4000+ MMR player in a Random Team game whose team has lower total MMR than the other team. So in practice, that nice 1/70 statistic becomes irrelevant. The system is skewed from the start.

So yeah, mathematically you might be right but that only holds up if matchmaking is functioning as it should. It’s not. So let’s not act like probability is on your side when the algorithm clearly isn’t.

In all the games I’ve played, either my team or the enemy team has had over 2000 MMR more than the other total.
I have never been in a game where it was just a 200–500 MMR difference between teams. Ever.

And if you still doubt it let’s go to the W3 Gym Discord and ask around. People there track this stuff, and they’ll tell you straight up: the system doesn’t balance things the way you’re trying to argue.

So yes, stats matter but only if the system is working properly. And in this case, it’s not. So let’s not pretend like this is just bad luck or tinfoil hat talk. The problem is real

18

This guy is total crazy, or he just play 10 games and jumped to a conclusion

19

I didnt say anything about caring that someone has a different opinion than me. I said that i dont care for unprovoked edgy toxicity. Im an adult. I dont care to listen to you tell me to kill myself, that my mother should get cancer etc.

Your point that 4000 mmr players get grouped together as a consequence of speed but isnt doing so randomly doesnt make sense at all. It would be precisly prioritizing speed if it was randomly assigning teams, as this is the simplest computationally to implement.

We dont know how players are grouped together but since we get these imbalanced teams it is likely it just randomly assorts players. Thats not speed or lack thereof, thats laziness on the devs part. Its easy to implement an algorithm that balances teams such that the best configuration has the least average mmr difference between the teams: just check each of the 35 possible team configurations and take the mean difference. Its not even computationally expensive so the speed argument still doesnt make sense. It is simply laziness or incompitence on the devs part.

No. It holds up purely in a vacuum where we can presuppose any number of assumptions. I assumed random matchmaking. In that case, it is right. But see above, we dont know precisely how they balance teams, although its likely it just randomly assigns players to teams.

Probability? Algorithm? These things are not human and cannot take sides. I never claimed the algorithm or probabilities are on my side anyways, whatever that means. Get real.

I havent tried to argue anything, until now. Do you understand what an assumption is? Do you get that it is possible to do logical deduction based on assumptions, reach conclusions and examine the outcomes? Its not rocket science. Its basic logic.

You are welcome to share the data. But hard data, not testimonies like you advocate for.

20

It’s honestly funny how you responded like the whole message was aimed only at you, It was also meant for Lutz, since both of you were part of the discussion. You were just the first wave, not the only one.

Just for the record, I wasn’t even being disrespectful in my messagebut you started acting hostile for no reason.

Now, regarding the speed vs balance topic, I think there’s been a misunderstanding. I wasn’t talking about the speed of the game itself, I was referring to ping. Blizzard has stated clearly that they’re prioritizing ping over proper matchmaking. That’s the “speed” I was talking about. I’ll admit I could’ve said “ping” instead, but the core point still stands: balance is being sacrificed for ping.

As for the claim that matchmaking is randomthat simply doesn’t match my experience. If matchmaking were truly random, we’d sometimes see both teams with an even distribution of high MMR players. For example: 2 players over 4000 MMR on each side. But that never happens. I’ve played since 2020, and I have never seen that.

Right now, once a player crosses the 4000+ MMR line, a huge number of their games are just stacked in their favor. I’ve seen it firsthand. One of my own accounts hit 4900 MMR purely due to the good teams I was being placed with, just lucky matchmaking. I’m currently on a win streak with 0 losses on that account. Of course I’ll lose eventually, but the point is: I’ll still win more than I lose, because the system favors high-MMR stacking.

And I’m not just speaking from one perspective. I’ve got accounts in 2000+, 3000+, and nearly 5000 MMR, so I’ve seen every layer of the system. The flaws are obvious once you’ve played at multiple levels.

I’ve also collected hundreds of screenshots showing this imbalance. Occasionally you’ll see one 4000+ MMR player on the weaker team, but then the other team has three or four. It’s one-sidedconsistently.

I’ve been active in this forum since the beginning. I know many people just check in now and then, maybe read one or two threadsbut I’ve been following and posting about these problems for years. Blizzard has left the matchmaking broken, and it’s discouraging. Whether it’s neglect or deliberate, nothing has been done to fix it.

So to sum up: this isn’t just randomness. It’s a flawed and possibly manipulated system. And until that’s acknowledged, we’re going to keep seeing one-sided games that ruin the experience

Okay, let’s do this. Give me your Discord, and we can talk there. Then we can join the Warcraft 3 Gym and ask people there.

You also have proof from Kaviax about prioritizing ping first, then MMR.

Just to summarize everything I’ve talked about so you understand what I mean,please read all my messages before responding.

I don’t think 3v3 or 4v4 matchmaking is random, first of all. I believe it’s an unconscious or conscious flaw in the system that ends up making one team strong and the other weak. In many games, players over 4000 MMR often get placed on the better team. I have seen this happen, witnessed it, and even experienced it myself with another one of my accounts. :slight_smile:

Let’s not feed into this by giving Lutz the attention he seems to wantmhe clearly liked that you responded so he could try to discredit me. Funny, Lutz, how you saw your chance and thought, “Great, now I can call him crazy so people will take my side.” That’s a classic example of deflecting.

Honestly, Lutz, you shouldn’t be jumping into this conversation. You couldn’t respond to the actual points I made earlier, so trying to discredit me now won’t work. It’s clear by now that your arguments don’t hold up.

Your strategy appears to be ignoring facts, twisting the narrative, and hoping people side with you just because you speak last. But that’s not going to work. I’ve played many gamesnot just 10 like you claimed and I know what I’m talking about.

Lutz, many people recognize this behavior as narcissistic. The only person who doesn’t see it is you, and that’s typicalpeople like you often can’t recognize it themselves. The day you do realize it will be the day you’re free.

So please, Lutz, stop responding just to protect your image. Everyone can see through it by now. You’ve tried to deflect instead of debating, and that says enough on its own.

And just to wrap this up,my original topic was simply about saying that I’m switching to Dota 2, because it has a proper timeout and matchmaking system. I don’t want to keep playing a broken game where the top 10 players on the ladder keep defending it like nothing’s wrong.

They also deny that players over 4000 MMR often get better teams,but that’s clearly false. I’ve seen it in the match history of both Lutz and Solozizhao. I even posted in another thread showing exactly what teams they had and what MMR the players had, as proof that they were lying and trying to defend a broken system. I exposed them clearly—and someone else also pointed it out.

After that? They didn’t respond at all. Not a single word.