Hi, I recently met two times as an RT team, one 3x3 AT team (Orc, Orc, Night Elf) which played this tactic:
(Very) Mass moonwells, towers
Only heroes - 2 x Blademaster, Warden
Tavern instant revive,
Moonwell instant replenish,
We fed them with massive units both times. The games were pretty long. My allies were decent players.
We tried to kill moonwells but they were so much. Their heroes dealt much damage with instant healing. After long game, their heroes achieved high levels, moonwells were restored, and things got harder.
The fight was even for long time, we killed much towers and wells, but this tactic made them eventually win.
I play Warcraft III from year 2003. Always thought moonwells are good in numbers especially in FFA and Team games, but not that much. Can provide Replays.
I think that Tavern revive shouldn’t be there because of moonwells. I know it’s very expensive, but still a little OP in this situation.
The difficulty was likely from the arranged team aspect rather than their comps. They might have coordination that cannot really be countered by random teams. If match making is working correctly then arranged teams should have a MMR penalty, similar to Heroes of the Storm, to help counter possible coordination advantages but I am not sure if match making is fully implemented yet.
Moonwells are not very good at replenishing mana. As such anything to get them to burn more mana would help reduce the sustain they can offer. Dispelling mirror images will force the Blade Masters to re-cast them more frequently which will consume more mana. Likewise if you have Undead then Banshees can keep the Blademaster’s cursed forcing more mirror images or other sources of mana burn. Silence works reasonably against Warden since her kit is casting orientated. Tavern revives put considerable resource strain so as long as the kill was not too costly it can be used to gain advantage. Moonwells are not the most durable structures so can be damaged by siege units, especially by splash damage if packed in high density.
Yes, I know that moonwells don’t replenish mana effectively.
But their heroes used Windwalk (Blademasters) and Blink (Warden) to return and replenish health and mana with moonwells.
Yes, their coordination was of course much better because of the Arranged Team, but still the problem lies in the tactic in my opinion.
We were really close to win situation in both cases, but then when their heroes were more fed by our units, they got an advantage eventually.
They had almost 0 units, so we had no experience to gain (they built few witch doctors, shamans and demolishers). Killing their heroes also didn’t do much.
Their micro was very intensive. They also used the “short invulnerability” item from the shop to enter the base, use bladestorm and run back to moonwells. Almost impossible to stop.
Maybe if we get more luck, we could win, but it would cost us much more effort that should be needed when encountering just heroes.
I remember Human Cube tactic from Reign of Chaos with Archmage, blizzard and towers, but that tactic was fairly possible to counter.
Yes in fact this strategy is bad. You lost because rt vs AT which happens most the time. soon as you scout no barracks you should be mass towering and expanding creeping the whole map and teching to tier 3. Their strategy only works if you attack them if they don’t build units and you just creep and ignore their buildings mass towers to make the harass worthless and waituntil you have mass chimeras and bats etc it wont matter at all. Its not op its flat out bad you just didn’t know how to counter it/ didn’t scout.
I guess a few general rules againts that should be:
1- Dont feed them. Be extra careful with your low hp units or dont make any at all.
2- Heals to counter fan of knives and aoes in general. Either priest, docs, obsi stats…
3- Disables, a lot of them to counter staff of preservation invuls and such, it will need a nice coordination tough. Storm bolt, stomp, hex, impale, cripple, ensnare etc
4- Try to end before they hide behind masss towers and get hero level.
5- Try to gain map control. They will probably surprise you with masss towers on his base, but you cant let them surprise you with a mass towered expo or otherwise the game will go to some uncertain result.
PD: i lost to something similar but vs pandas, pretty annoying indeed. Never played vs it again to use my own advices
You should have taken map control over the tavern depending on the map. If it was gnoll wood good luck… if its a single tavern in center you arcane tower, nerub tower it. You also need to apply any kind of feedback/spell immune units possible. Spellbreakers, demon hunter, bloodmage etc…
I used this strat when im trolling in rt and when im alone. This strat is not good, in fact its god awful. You lost for one reason: you are just not good.
You were fighting 2 heroes with just buildings and no units. You have the clear advantage and decided to throw the game by not using your advantage. You could of expanded everywhere and towered it and therefore starved them of resources. You could of just gotten siege and hold position and destroyed the buildings slowly. You could of left your army at base and deny them kills and exp for their heroes.
Bottom line is the problem is not the strat, the problem is YOU.
Its not abuse its literally them being bad. Like think about what you are saying for a second “my opponents have an advantage by not making units” no that’s a liability if you fed them exp and didn’t exploit the fact they had no units to take map control you are bad. Next time creep the whole map tower up so they cant harass and you will have the higher level heroes gg ez. You don’t rush mass towers with hunts you creep away their stuff then yours mass xpo then come back to kill the mass towers with 12 chimera.
OK btw the I just played against this last night, won and saved the replay. A Orc towered himself in on Market Square and just used 3 heroes to kill my teams units. I had to take control of my allies actions by telling them what to do because they were feeding them exp and losing the game for us.
Point being this strat is easy to beat, it really comes down to who gets starved first and reducing losses. Also helps if your allies are not idiots.
Like if you winning or he losing proofs anything about a strat being good or bad lol, would you win with your random rt ally vs an at team 3 leagues above you in w3champions? vs a bnet at team 300 mmr higher than you?
For judging a strat the teams should be about the same skill, and the fact that its at vs rt already puts one team behind.
Your original reply was about me not giving advice:
And I proved you wrong with my first post:
You got got rekt before I even replied and now you change the topic because you dont know how to accept that you are wrong. NIce try fail more. I wont reply back to you until you acknowledge that you were wrong with your original post to me.
