Generally when you exploit the game to win then you are by definition a cheater.
The only issue here is that the cheat is widely known and ignored for so long people learned to live with it.
As i said.
A frankenstiens’s monster.
Any other game this issue would have been quickly fixed and resolved.
You said in your first post that you are relatively new to War3, and wanted to know what the community thought about pathing.
Then the community told you it’s important to the skill of playing the game, and you didn’t like that answer so you disagree. Sorry for the SC2 example? They are different games with different mechanics so I think the comparison is pretty truthful.
Why ask for feedback if when you don’t like it you’ll just dismiss it?
Either someone like me needs this “buggy cheater code” to win… (There’s a lot of anger up there ![:rofl:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
)
Or some players who complain about it can’t learn to play the game as it is and want to change it to make it easier just because…?
I’d say learn to play the game that has stayed around and been competitive for longer than any of those other games have even existed.
lol?
I did ask for your feedback and I truly appreciate it, I did not mean to offend. and I wasn’t dismissing it your feedback. I listened disgested it and replied to you. I couldn’t provide you more about SC2 because you will not understand it. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean that I dismissed it. You can’t really expect to throw anything at me and if I don’t agree with it then I’m just not hearing what I want to hear, doesn’t really work like that my friend.
You still haven’t provide an answer about the relation of time and improvement. You still haven’t said anything about how this 15 year old code has peaked in insurmountable perfection and its utterly impossible to improve.
There are many older games that people still play.
Hell people are still making massive Lord of the Rings mods for Rome TW with hundreds if not thousands downloading them.
Medieval 2 TW even more so.
Blizzard never designed WC3 initially to be an Esports game so these quirks were never meant to be exploited as they were.
First of all try to be civil guys, this forum is for the game development not for dramatic yapping. You’re repeating your own post in the same thread as well without bringing new arguments, this is quite immature.
Brass you had a question and we answered it. Nanat, no it is not a bug and I believe a lot of posts in here has explained already why the pathing was and still is necessary. Not to mention there’s a ton of other threads that brought this up as well.
If you prefer Starcraft to Warcraft mechanics that’s fine, however they are two different franchises and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand why the Warcraft community would like to retain the core differences even if you don’t agree with it.
We are being civil, so ok? I have felt the need to repeat because people have made me repeat myself with diversed arguments.
I had a question and it has derailed to a proper discussion, so thanks for stopping by mom. Maybe there is other threads that you can supervise? thanks for checking on us.
The irony lol just stopped by to yap
I am sure bugs that allowed certain units to refresh abilities, escape stuns, build buildings faster and etc… are actually features and not bugs either.
No these are bugs. They must be fixed.
The few hundred super fans still entertained with 15 year old buggy code are not going to satisfy all the new players coming to this game.
Otherwise why did they leave in the first place.
There are tons of beautiful but horribly buggy games out there. And WC3 could be one of them when the units fight you with their crappy pathing and delayed response.
Just look at Age of Empires and Age of Mythology.
They kept all the stuff from the original games too. And what happened? They are abandoned wastelands after the first month.
Oh, I never played MP? Funny, I thought I had spent hundreds of hours playing WC3 over the last 15 years, but I guess you have a much better idea of how much I played based on your reading of a single post. Try not to be a dismissive douche, I know its asking a lot, but I think conversation will benefit. 
The entire game is about killing ONE expensive unit? Wow… all this time I thought you could win by razing someone’s towns while they had a 90food deathball of expensive units running around. Who knew?
It’s called strategy, and if you think WC3 is just about hero-slaughtering, I’m thinking maybe you didn’t play it as much as you would like me and others to think. I’ve intentionally LET my opponent kill a hero before, just to get his army into a much better formation for my army to wipe them out. It’s called tactics. Strategy and tactics, THAT is what WC3, and really any RTS game, is all about… almost like it should be a part of the genre name, or something…
Also, I don’t think you played SC2 all that much either. Body-blocking wouldn’t work good there even with clunky, WC3-style pathing and collision, as many more units are ranged, so not as much need for such exploiting of buggy game code, for the newbs that rely on such cheez (also, it DOES work in SC2, as others have pointed out… just is suicide to worry about such mundane bs in the middle of battle, in that game). Maybe git gud? Then you could see it isn’t necessary to do what you have always done, and maybe even get that w:l ratio above 1:3?
But really, your parting comment tells me what I need to know… you don’t think questioning 15yo tech is valid, so you should probably just stay with WC3 classic… Reforged is for people who like IMPROVEMENT not stagnation.
EDIT:
How do I do the quote of previous post at top of my post? I thought that’s what the reply button at the bottom of a post did… /forumnewb
Highlight the text and then a small dialogue box pops up that allows you to “quote”.
Not at all. Your argument makes no sense. If the pathing gets hanged, it will be a completely different game. No blocking means fewer kills, means less XP, means less focus on fights (because everyone can run away with impunity).
No hero surrounds means heroes can run away all the time, even from bad positions.
The only way to proceed would be to drastically reduce the TTK (time to kill), down to the levels of Warcraft 2, BW, SC2, LoL or DotA where units die instantly from one shot. But that would be absurd.
Overall, our Warcraft purists seem way too kind and welcoming. If you had suggested removing turn rates on a DotA board, you’d have been viciously called evil names and asked to go away.
As I understand the issue and as many people pointed out the somewhat clunky feel of pathing used to be a bug but it BECAME a feature. Where blocking, surrounds, smart waypoints etc became a very important flavour of competitive and non competitive games. To remove that would make a remaster absolutelly different game as it wouldn’t have the original feel. Also, the reforged is supposed to work along with classic (if i understand correctly what the devs mean). Different pathing would give outrageous advantage to players of one type over the other
Blocking is an important gameplay element. Collision changes don’t have to make blocking harder.
A collision circle that had the same radius as the average rotational cross section of a square would play almost identically to said square, but it would feel cleaner, less glitchy.
However, something like collision shape might underpin lots of the pathing code, and changing it might take a ton of work.
Have you been above level 30 Solo for all these years? Then you would understand. if you are under 100 or under 80 APM player you would not,.
Yes hundreds thousands and million hours. But how many of them for 1v1 actually? I should have been specific with the game type.
And again you do not understand, I am talking about the surround you do on fiends, grunts, units that are crucial to kill early on and take advantage.
I have recently returned playing War3 and lots of these players have no clue about such mechanics. If you want I will post a Replay what kind of surround actually matter to prove my point. Want a Replay?
And FYI I have been with SC2 from 2010 to now with some major gaps around heart of the swarm. Are you at least Diamond or higher on 1v1 there?
Even if you are (which I doubt), it’s like asking SC2 to be more micro oriented slower pace like War3. I respected the different mechanics and play SC2 as such.
The ability to accept there are better players and try to overcome difficulty in what is competitive multiplayer and not asking to nerf or fix things that are difficulty for you is a VIRTUE (you could try applying that to life or do you say to Employers hey Nerf your Requirements im not good enough for there), one that nowawdays lots of cry babies lack.
Most people know that forums are for casuals to post in their safe space, you have no idea what outrage such change would cause.
And it is Reforged, just like they kept SC1 mechanics, they cant make such a change here with pathing as well!
Hero slaughtering… im talking about the value the ability to kill units as if you have any 1v1 clue would know how that matters early game…
Funny, I thought we were speaking of WC3 as a whole, not one specific custom game map… as someone who liked core WC3 PvP, and never really liked DotA, like at all, I REALLY don’t want THAT to be the standard…
Oh my gosh… "Frankenstein monster’… that’s why 1v1 was so successful for so many years Kappa ? Before they invented Dota, which lowered the skill requirement to what…? 1 hero control.
As someone who has studied design, yes it may have been a bug but became part of game mechanics that players love. No matter you hate this stuff cause apparently bad… learn to deal with it they are not changing the game.
It’s like in MK Ermac was a bugged red scorpion but they decided to make a character out of thus bug.
Some bugs are emergent part and frankly you call this ‘bug’ no it is engine limitation… BUG, little clue about how to name things.
I have already told you.
If it is so beloved why is the community only a couple hundred at best?
Perhaps… maybe… the game is dated? Maybe the super fans are a minority?
Here is an idea… fix the bugs.
If the super fans are disappointed you have a perfectly untouched WC3 right there for you to enjoy.
After all. This is a reFORGE not a remaster. Why leave the bugs there? Bugs that allowed you to build buildings faster with micro managing bugs, bugs that allowed you to avoid stuns. Bug that allowed you to cheat and refresh abilities faster.
Yeah.
Those bugs.
Are they features too?
You keep talking about these bugs as if they exist. Maybe they do. I don’t know. I’ve never really cared for WC3 ladder enough to know about any of these bugs but until you provide some actual evidence the bugs you’re talking about exist I will choose to believe that they don’t.
With those out the window, all you have left to complain about is the delay in actions/movement. As it’s been pointed out, it’s a mix of just flat-out delay (as in lag) and the games coding. If that’s the case, remove the flat-out delay and keep the coding. No one is against the game running smoother by means of it being quicker to respond (as far as I know) but if you mess with the fundamental way in which the game acts you’re killing it’s identity. You seem to think that all the more casual players have abbandoned the original WC3 because it is…well, what it is.
That’s not true. I’m a casual player. Been playing WC3 on and off for atleast 10 years now. If they change the core way the game feels and plays in a manner that does more than just make what’s already there run smoother Reforged goes from an insta-buy to refuse-to-buy-out-of-principle for me, and I don’t think I’m the only one who feels this way.
That’s just a lie. Thousands of concurrent players on Bnet alone. Not even counting 163. Tens of thousands of views on YouTube. Check out Miker, his tournament coverage gets 20k views there. Abver’s videos get 7k views. Grubby gets 25-30k views, plus solid 6k concurrent viewers on Twitch. Check out Neo&Remo, Wtii, Happy. FunnyWarcraft3’s videos get 150-200k views…
And that’s not counting China.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDcg8SBT8Dc
Have you heard about google? Literally the first link.
Lol sure. Yeah.
Given that Age of Empires and Age of Mythology also got remastered exactly as they were a decade ago… what happened to them? Where they as popular as they used to be?
Loool. Nope. They died off almost instantly.
If you go and check those games out now there are barely two dozen people left at any given time.
So… what happened? Well they left the old bugs back in there, the game was dated. The UI was dated. Was it nostalgic? Hell yeah.
But it might as well been a flash game for all the interest people give it now days.
If you want your buggy mess.
Feel free to play WC3 as it was originally made.
Leave reforged alone.
youtube views does not mean active players you doofus.