Yeah, is Frost Wyrm a useless unit in general, whether in the campaigns or in PVP or it is just me?
Expensive, slow and Low HP for the unit that takes 7 supplies and always the one that dies first since most of the cheap units can easily destroy it in the direct fight.
Even when I am playing the campaign mode, I can’t find myself training it due to its costs and high supply.
maybe it’s you
You need some ground support for them, like a DK or something. Then mass frost wyrms and you can take down almost everything
Definitely not useless.
They are more of a niche counter unit.
Notice there are alot of Heavy Armored units?
You’ll want 2-3 Frost Wyrms to quickly delete those heavy frontline units.
They are also very forgivable microwise, they have massive health pools which gives you plenty of oppurtunity to deathcoil them, or micro them out of harms way.
They are also excellent hero assassins. Especially with a Orb of Corruption in play, or a Blood Mage banishing things.
They definitely are NOT a unit you will build EVERY game though.
in competetive 1vs1 they are useless yes. If someone else say they are not they dont play melee or low lvl. its never build in pro games
I like how convinced you are.
Wyrms become really strong when playing in 3on3 or 4on4. Simply because your allies can boost your income and help you having them faster and in numbers. It is really rare to see them in solo or 2on2, destroyers are more efficient.
except that adding 1 frost wyrm in the army isn’t that uncommon
so saying they are useless is wrong
yes i am cuz i watch the pro szene every day and 95% of the time u wont see any
no its not commen to add u have destros and not the money for that. u are talking bullls*it watch some high level gameplay. u will almost never see happy, 120, wfz, sheik, ente, syde or whoever seeing adding frostwyrms and winning
so 95% means that you see it 5% of the time
which means it’s not useless. it’s uncommon but not impossible to see. Just like wyverns and gryphons are uncommon but you can still use them.
also stop using the top 0.01% player in your argument that’s dumb.
also I said A frostwyrm in your army comp not frostwyrms
if u want to handycap urself go ahead and use them in 1vs1 but if u wanna win its rly bad.
yea, frostwyrms are trash. they are a fashion accessory for when you’re winning the game anyway with a massive resource lead.
they have too much hard counters, have low range, are vulnerable to cheap units, get hard countered by any spellcaster or ranged magic immune units, do low splash damage, have a low attack speed and give a TON of xp if killed.
to make frostwyrms a truly strong unit you need to support them with units that counter their weaknesses, like a full ground army with buff units and dispel units. at this point you could just not waste resources on wyrms and win the game with a regular army.
in the end, frostwyrms absolutely need destroyers, and at this point you can just mass destroyers, since they are cheaper, have not so much worse dps due to orb of annihilation + attack speed, are magic immune, dont take over a minute to build and dont eat up so much supply and tech cost - and you need them any way, because they’re your only source of dispel.
wyrms need to have a shorter tech path, higher attack range, some numbers shifted around and a dispel rework for undead.
i dont like it neither, but destroyers completely replaced frostwyrms.
dude i’m not saying it’s crazy or anything, it’s obviously off-meta but to say that you can never make use of a frost wyrm in your army is wrong because I see them once in a while.
it’s like necromancers, it’s pretty trash right and yet SyDe has been doing it vs proplayers like Hitman and won with them.
Just because a unit is off-meta it doesn’t mean it’s completely useless and can never be used. Obviously if your main goal is to go mass frostwyrms every game you’ll get destroyed because that’s bad
frosties are a thing in 4s cause of the slow debuff(that was nerfed i think) but the general jist is because heroes are way more important in team modes, UD coil nova + slow debuff + the frostie dmg basically turns UD into the best scaling army with highest burst potential outside stuff like banish bolt gryphs. Killing armies is way less important in 4s.
now, theres a difference in necros vs wyrms.
necros are sleeper units, considered “trash” since the beginning of wc3. but they are strong actually. frenzy is very good, raise dead is pretty good too, if you can overwhelm the enemy dispel. undead casters were considered trash alltogether, today ppl agree on banshees actually being one of the strongest utility casters.
frostwyrms on the other hand had their time in pro play vs elf, so they got used, and got replaced because they are not worth it. frostwyrms just got played vs elf because elves back in the day decided it was a good idea to play bear dryad vs mass gargs. eventually they just massed dryads or killed off gargs with panda + mass hippos or today they will go mass fearies and there, boom wyrms done.
i used to play them a ton back in the day vs orc, but truth is, hexer lvl3 counters any amounts of frostwyrms without batting an eye. mass wyverns also tear them apart, the same goes for berserkers.
wyrms lose to any form of human anti air, especially dragon hawks and gyros, casters or nuke and wyrms also are really really useless in ud mirror due to gargs, web and destroyers.
they come in so late with such huge resource cost and bring so little to the table, its not worth it. its a bad unit overall.
chims, on the other hand, are significantly cheaper and faster to get, deal massive amounts of splash damage and do have a huge siege attack - also lets not forget elf plays with alot of expos.
gryphons are also a great unit to chime in when you have the resources.
on top of that elf and human have a staff to save those units. if you cannot keep the wyrm alive by hammering in all the death coils you have, its gone.
for what tho? frost nova slows and lich + fiends + dessis deal similar amounts of damage per gold/supply cost.
It’s one of the strongest endgame units but also quite fragile.
You act like you cant Anti-magic shell, Devour Magic, or Death Coil+Frost Armor your Frost Wyrm/s.
Someone already pointed out you generally only build 1 or 2 of them, but they are effective units if the game gets that late.
How does a Orc player counter your Frost Wyrm? By building 1400g worth of bat riders to kill it? That’s worth it on the Undead players end.
in my opinion it should be used as supportive unit. you dont need mass of it.
play like Happy’s style and add 2 frost wyvern. this way you will be effective
to get out one frost wyrm you need:
sacrificial pit:
75g 150w
boneyard:
175g 200w
frostwyrm:
385g 120w 7 supply
635g 470w 7 supply
for a unit that is useless vs any meta strategy in any matchup. not worth it.
now you add a temple for banshees into the mix and you get even more cost for it. you can put a whole dk manapool into a wyrm and not get anything out of it, because the wyrm does nothing for you to win the fight.
for the wyrm you lose out at least 3-4 fiends, a lvl 6 tavern rebuy, 3 aboms, 2 destroyers. and what does the wyrm add? a lil bit of damage thats only good vs grunts and spirit walkers, a bad armor type vs berserkers, loads of xp when killed and a slow effect that nova also provides. if you dont have an army that wins without the wyrm, the wyrm wont make you win the fight.
an orc player has shadow hunter with hex and you’re done, wasting so much resources into that one unit. the bat is the only bad orc unit vs a wyrm. berserkers, wyvern, blademaster with orb are ace. but actually hex lasts so long on the wyrm, the orc can wreck the whole undead army until it wears off. so you need to throw another 500g + wood towards destroyers to keep the wyrm flying.