Genuine question. I understand the desire for this, but I personally see it as a “Nice to Have” as opposed to a “Must Have”. If they are unable to do something technically because of the limitations of the Classic code, then I don’t want them to not do it. Yes, I understand same gameplay engine and all of that jazz. Was just wondering about this. Don’t want anything holding them back. Also, a lot of the issues people have been experiencing wouldn’t be happening as they would have left the Classic version untouched. Also, I understand it’s probably too late to change their minds regardless. Just a theoretical question…
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Yes, it is a must have. Why? Because now, if a WC3 player doesn’t like something, he may not care - he doesn’t have to buy anything anyway.
But in your case, he will have to buy. So there will be far more pure hatred directed at Blizzard, any hype will be lost, the game will die.
And there should be the ability to switch back. If there wouldn’t be, literally everybody will send you away and start swearing at you.
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Why would someone have to buy Reforged? I didn’t say they would be killing it.
Clearly people have been enjoying the game in its classic state. Sure, the community may shrink, but no-one would be forced to upgrade.
I also don’t understand why people aren’t willing to pay a bit of money for a game they love, but I guess people have their own reasons.
You see, if someone clearly hates the new graphics, his anger may be soothed and his credit of faith in Blizzard retained if he is allowed to ignore the entire debacle completely. But if he has to care, his anger will come out and will be justified.
And I don’t understand your point well enough. Do you suggest maintaining two separate games? Or forcing the new graphics (with no ability to turn on the SD) on everybody who buys Reforged?
Personally I kind of wish it wasn’t tied together, but it is better for the community that it is. I was actually thinking something similar recently. I was thinking they should’ve left WC3 to die with those that can’t handle change and actually done something special with Reforged. Then maybe we wouldn’t have so many whiners on these boards too. But ultimately keeping crossplay was the right thing to do for the community.
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The issue is that it would be a huge risk with an unknown reward. WC4 would at least be WC4, for better or worse.
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I just meant leaving Classic in “maintenance mode”, effectively leaving it alone.
I’m not saying crossplay is the wrong choice. Was just curious what others thought.
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In a way, that would be more disrespectful towards WC3. Doesn’t WC3 deserve a remaster? An update for modern systems?
Also, there is no place for so many RTS games. I’m against splitting ladders in WC3, and not because our community is not big enough - the entire RTS crowd isn’t.
The place of SC2 (and now SC:R) is indeed a peculiar one. At least, SC:R was for Koreans mostly.
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I agree with your points. RTS is struggling right now and we don’t want divisions of the community if we can prevent it. What I’m not sure of is if only 1% will be playing in Classic mode or a much higher number. It is is only 1% then it seems pointless to be chained to it. Of course no-one will know that until WC:R launches and has time to settle in.
EDIT: So, I just realized in a developer interview they talked about this:
“Where we are limited is, because of the cross-compatibility with the SD version, is the frame counts. This animation is 20 frames and its gotta stay 20 frames. This is the animation, this is what it does, this is how long you have to do it, so those kinds of limitations are what we’re working with.” - Brian Sousa, Lead Artist
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i would trade compatibility by having better WC3R game
They killed warcraft 3 to have this reforged garbage.
First off, if they didn’t then Reforged would be dead on arrival, you think even a quarter of the war3 players are going to pay 40 bucks for an “updated” version of the game they already own? The models look AWFUL and I have zero desire to even touch reforged.
But really it doesn’t matter,the game is being killed by stupid decisions and the inability of the classic team to fix the game.
RIP warcraft 3.
- Single-player isn’t an issue here as anyone can play whatever version they like.
- Reforged is also going to have options to use old graphics and old UI - what remains is basically balance patches.
The only issues with removing crossplay as I see them are:
- Classic-style players will be matched against those using the new graphics and UI - and that might be advantageous to the latter. But it’s very minor - classic players had this same issue when custom keys became available.
- Decimating the classic player pool. But when TFT came out it decimated the RoC community, and that was only 1 year later. RoC could still be played, but most moved to TFT.
So IMHO I don’t think crossplay is necessary.
What downsides are there for keeping crossplay? Classic can have its internals modified via patch if it’s necessary to maintain crossplay - as long as it doesn’t alter gameplay. So the downsides are mostly the lack of changes that both affect gameplay and aren’t considered as part of a gameplay/balance patch.
I guess the best example might be increasing the frequency of running the pathfinding algorithm.
There’s also the huge increase in testing and maintenance workload to ensure both games remain compatible.
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I will not upgrade to Reforged. Why? There is nothing worth in it to pay $30 for. You do not want cross play? Fine, handout free version of Reforged to everyone that has ROC+TFT (You can have disabled reforged graphics option forced). Otherwise, do not speak about the whole topic.
Comparing ROC => TFT Migration to TFT => Reforged migration is pretty stupid. You are comparing expansion migration to a graphics rework migration. As someone who does not play any other Blizzard game, and not interested in the new graphics. I get absolutely nothing from paying $30 for reforged. So why should I upgrade? Killing TFT community by splitting client (Which already confirmed won’t happen by Blizzard and logic itself) for a $30 is a bad thing. For me, I’ll just quit right away and stop playing, forcing me to pay $30 to continue playing what I’ve been playing for years? Yeah… No. Bye.
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Not really… why would he “HAVE to” buy? he can just keep playing the older game.
Not saying crossplay would be bad, it’d be awesome but if there are incompatibilities which I honestly think at one point we’ll run into some, I wouldn’t mind… in fact, I hope there’s no crossplay at all in custom games cause it’d be a nightmare to make them.
I can see why they are making the cross-play. It still is, after all, just a remaster (or reforge), but I hope that they will start to slowly break the connection so that Reforged can actually evolve. Holding back Reforged, just for the sake of purists, just doesn’t seem rational in the long run. I get that at the start, they want to keep all the players together, but once we get new players with Reforged, Classic can be faded out over time and left behind.
For example, future DLCs and campaign content would obviously be Reforged-exclusive, but they could also introduce Reforged-exclusive custom maps and other melee game modes, like giving us more powerful map editor without certain gameplay restriction and allow some of these restrictions to be lifted in those Reforged-exclusive melee maps. Just imagine certain custom and melee maps with better AI, pathing and unlimited unit selection, etc.
That shouldn’t even bother the Classic players, if they don’t want any changes in the first place, because they couldn’t play these new maps anyway. I think something of this sorts could be the best of both worlds.
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I think what they’ll want is if a year after Reforged comes out, they can say 95% of players are on Reforged. Then they have a good case to stop supporting Classic.
It’s a shame to see them holding back just so classic players don’t feel left out. So much lost potential. Classic is a 15 year old game FFS, someone has to lose.
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lmao at people talking about RTS and wc3 in a bad position right now? duh, the game came out in 2003. how do people play the same game for years? i turn on twitch and i see kids from 10years ago playing the same damn game. life is too short, i dont care if they are making money from it.
If they make more money from it, then they will support it better. This is basic business.
Are people forgetting that a huge chunk of the player base for reforged will be from players that don’t play wc3 anymore? if the calculus based itself on people who are still playing they would be f*****! let the classicists cry, it’s already nice that they are making it crossplay (which is obviously holding them back when there are things they should adapt to new tech but wc3 won’t handle it)