If that happens we need to effect Activision wallet by what ever means we can. It will be the only thing that could send a message to them to lay off our games or we will make your games bad
Well i got shivers down my spine now that the Classic Team is no more. which means the new team has to re-understand and learn everything, including the communities feedback, we spent so much time bludgeoning their mindset on the right track, all for nothing.
And you understand the game ? your solution to WarIII seems to be âMake Starcraft 2 - 2.0 with a Warcraft 3 coat of paintâ which is a highly flawed idea and mostly disregards and ignores alot of the details that makes the game what it is, and doesnât even acknowledges whether or not there should be direct effort in trying to replicate it.
The reason its easier to do a Spyro or Crash Bandicoot remake as opposed to remaster is because there is nothing to do in that game other then to play the game that exists, therefore to recreate it with modern tools is obviously the better choice, atleast even then they decided to be faithful to the games cartoony and ageless artstyle.
Ah yes, DSG here at it again consistently insisting that Warcraft III and the original values the game evolved to have deserved nothing other then a mild DRM heavy bnet2.0 integration just to make everyone shut-up and then re-create a version of the game on Starcraft II Engine which would be unable to use existing resources at hand and just be a clean slate recreation.
Ivâe seen you be more reasonable then you used to be, this is certainly not it, like the audacity you have for suggesting Warcraft III never deserved a proper awesome and well developed remaster, into just saying it flat out doesnât deserve a remaster, into just saying they should probably just take 1.26 remove the risks then just yank it into bnet and let it rot there for eternity just baffles me, like at this point, you feel like a corrupt politician that that says War3 should have a mostly untouched move-over to bnet just so people donât vote against you, its pathetic, if you hate the original game so much then just be a man and stand for it, you know that the community would have a better oversight over the game then Blizzard, at this point, you mightaswell just say do not even touch the game at all because i would rather play using ENT/MMH/Eubnet/RUbnet/GameRanger parties and maintain dominion over an unsupervised version of the game compared to opening a version of the game that falls into the DRM heavy control of Battle.net Launcher and experience crap Blizzard servers because in the future youâre describing Warcraft III would get less attention then Starcraft Remastered.
I never would wonder if someone asked me who is the biggest hater of this game i would probably grab your name pretty quickly from the list, half most of the time you read like a disgruntled Starcraft II developer that was pissed that no one was 600IQ enough to use the brand new and improved engine of the game that was under strict and heavy control from Blizzard, and under that type of corporate supervision it would never be able to have the same level of artistic freedom of expression and elaboration that Warcraft III had.
Then to go so hard on suggesting so many absurd things all at once:
1 - Re-creation of the WarIII Campaigns quality had nothing to do with the engine, this is hard countered by the fact that fan-made Custom Campaign creations have often been of equal quality as the original campaigns if not surpassed as its viewable by the 10-15 examples of such content developed by highly passionate individuals so wording as if remaking the campaign in the same engine was suppose to be a hard and unachieveable task is absurd. the truth is, they simply didnât put in the individuals that would work on these missions and instead left it in the lone hands of 1-3 devs mostly.
2 - The Graphical remake has been the biggest failure of this game, let me put it into perspective just how bad it is, Total War Warhammer II which is an exceptionally complex game with mountains of content is 60GB, with visuals obviously with more focus on detail and gritty feel which is true to Warhammers style of look, now War3 isnât even half of that and its 30GB, do you realize how insane this is ? i would have a hard time accepting this even if the Reforged released with 2 bloody new factions and downloadable doodads packs. you know why is it so unnoticeable for War3 ? because instead of producing models that would be less complex, more stylish/ageless art centered and more easily replicateable and reuseable by the community they would get a bigger win, with Reforged it almost felt like they knew just how big of a screw up they made with the models and instead decided to double down creating bloat-loads of models to make up for the fact that they failed to replicate the values i just mentioned.
But as Arthas says, as if i could forget, hereâs the problem, they doubled down on using the games engine at first announcement in 2018, if they simply went ahead with a visual remaster that would be less harsh and incompatible, everything was problem solved regarding that aspect.
Its also very important for me to point out that Warcraft III is not a largely custom content driven game, its an evidently fair split between the melee folks and the custom folks. so please stop repeating this lie, heck if things went better it would be more melee focused then custom cuz its easier to jump into melee.
No DSG, thatâs not what people want, thatâs what you want, i certainly donât want that, youâve always hammered in on Warcraft 3, never understood its charm and always been that guy who would take available chances to forcefully mash your Starcraft II-esque fantesy into this game. look iâll tell you one thing, since Starcraft II didnât get the chance to be explored more, why donât you do both of us a favour and just go out there and advocate for a Starcraft III sequel to continue its lore, you can even advocate for whatever there is that you want the game to take a lesson from WarIII to be tried in that new sequel, since youâre a man of statistics, surely you know a new RTS thatâs following the starcraft brand will be objectively more successful with its clearly superior engine iâm sure the custom content community can do better then us 
Also can we talk about the whole notion that you portray the older patches of the game as if there was 90% chance you would instantly get hacked because of its security risks, do you realize that if these security risk exploiters wanted to i dont know, actually exploit people, there is like infinitely better options to do so then trying to play around with the community of a 19 year old RTS game ? just a thought.
But to finish it off, it wouldnât be if i actually pointed out under which circumstance of effort and development i for one would certainly agree with a mostly untouched game.
We discussed this many times before over the visuals, so i say it here again, my personal preference over a high quality reskin and light-remodel of the game is apart of the more extreme position for the visual overhaul just like how Reforged is, the more reasonable approach is something along the lines of Heros of the Storm.
But lets stick to your idea, okay, within your idea, since weâre not doing HD models, iâll go with my idea then, weâll do a proper high quality reskin + remodeling that helps to support the skins being wrapped around the models, and realistic shadow textures (if possible without too much harmful outcomes) we can also do better recalculate shadows since those textures can be generated and just remain that way, for terrain atleast, and thatâs it for the visuals, it would need far less money to be spent on it, and Reforged as uncovered had even less money then we might have imagined dedicated to the project⌠right.
There are many ways to improve a Campaign, ideas that i have clearly stated out before, redone ingame cutscenes would be 100% possible, just because you or someone might have this very hollywood idea of close shot motion captured cutscenes doesnât mean thatâs the only way ever out there, like with the creativity of the cutscenes in the original game there would be tons of chances to improve the experience, there is open chances to improve the gameplay of the campaigns, make heros more unique then their melee counterparts, introduce better items, elaborate the games lore if possible, remaster the soundtrack but not the voices since those are just fine, do boss fights before the AI upscaled original cinmatics, like a possibility of Thrall and Grom facing Manaroth, bringing him to critical health before the cinmatic plays, all of these are already doable to the quality iâm speaking, by the custom community, to create a wholesome experience of a timeless classic.
Now lets get technical shall we, all of the features and improvements and balance patches and removing security risks that youâre so worried about would happen, Patch 1.26 would go up all the way to 1.33.xx the game would be a resounding success, it would be a remarkable reputation win and a fan service for Blizzard, since they seem to be missing a lot of good reputation these days.
Then, they can ride off into the sunset and wonder if making Warcraft IV or Starcraft III is a better choice, which my personal vote goes, to Starcraft III because i feel bad for that game.
And this level of care but certainly not the level of ambition and resources that Reforged might have needlessly consumed, is certainly something that in my opinion Warcraft III deserves to have, an ultimate recognition of the ages for a classic that would outlive most of Blizzards other games. a dream that would never come to pass.
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The W3 community is not the target audience of D2R, so yeah we dont really matter in how the game will succeed, unless it becomes into another W3R 2.0, i struggle to see us hurting D2R numbers as much as i would likeâŚ
And they suspended me for trolling. There has not ever been a WC3 campaign of equal quality of features and feature complexity as the vanilla SC2 campaign and never will be â on that old WC3 engine, that is. Passion does not result in additional game engine features. I spent longer with WC3 engine even while aware that SC2 could do more if I bothered to learn it, which I did not. WC3 does not offer certain features SC2 offers. Reforged gets closer but itâs more frustrating to use, and then running a custom campaign requires crazy hacks on it.
Imagine a fanmade remake of the SC2 campaign on Reforged. Anyone who does that deserves a trophy beyond my comprehension or explanation. I just⌠do not even foresee it as a possible future.
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I have opened SC2 editor once, gazed on the immensity, made a 32x32 terrain for respect and turned it off^^
Donât want to start again after SC editor⌠WC3 editor⌠UT editor⌠FS2 editor⌠Iâm done with editors^^
Iâve said it before and I will say it again: The only thing Activision/Blizzard needs to do is - add a ladder, clans, and profiles. Top that off with resetting the ladder and a balance patch every 6 mos to a year and the majority of the people that still play this game regularly will be satisfied. Yes, it is all of the things Frozen Throne had prior to being replaced by Reforged. Believe it or not, nobody is expecting any additional content at this point. We just want back what we had.
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Again, if they used an upgraded the StarCraft II engine instead of trying to reinvent the wheel from scratch they could have optimised the model system a lot better, especially since they would not need to pay wall off the high quality graphic mode in a way it does not bleed into the classic version.
The visual remaster was most of the problem. A lot of the Warcraft III code was tied heavily into how it rendered the game. This is why desyncs between classic and reforged graphic players is still a huge problem. It should never have been a problem but a barely stable piece of code can expose issues like this when large changes are made.
Yes there are melee players. Half? I think not⌠Unless you can prove otherwise I just have to go with what most of the traffic relating to Warcraft III is on, and that is custom maps.
Yes they will use a 20 year old print spooler driver instead andâŚ
Any exploit is a risk waiting to happen. 1 silly worker running a vulnerable game on their work computer could be enough to blackout a large part of a country.
The classic Warcraft III graphic engine has some serious issues with rendering a lot of complex models. Dump 200 odd Tauren Chieftains on screen and graphics basically melt towards the origin of the map.
So to fix this they had to make the Reforged graphic engine, which actually used programmable shaders, which again is basically reinventing the wheel as StarCraft II engine already did all this a decade ago, and was heavily optimised for it as well. In fact it was so optimised for it that it killed many GPUs of the time like the 8800GT, similar to how Amazonâs new MMO is killing RTX 3090s.
What is there to remaster? It was already HD Audio back when it released⌠Fully sampled at 48 KHz, as good as losslessly compressed music.
Again, this raises my initial argument back when Warcraft III Reforged was announced that Warcraft III was modern enough that it really did not need a remaster or remake since outside the 4:3 limitation the assets have all scaled very well into modern times, especially if they added native support for anti-aliasing and anistropic filtering. Basically Blizzard trying to sell fridges to Eskimos. A lot of people refunded Reforged and have kept on playing Classic with their old RoC purchase.
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1 silly company adding a computer where is not needed^^
1 silly company running windows on a machine that share the same network of the nuclear plant^^
1 silly company hiring a silly worker and put him in front of a computer without restrictions^^
âŚand the most common one: one silly company having a silly chief who uses his computer on the shared network to download malware here and there and whining that âitâs too slowâ^^
âŚat least the silly worker playing WC3 before reforged was having fun^^
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You mean the hub areas, mission selections and everything ? i think you misunderstand my point, perhaps intentionally so, because again, you just go into Sc2, i donât know what is your apparent obsession to change a topic about Wc3 into Sc2.
What i mean is, Changing the engine has literally nothing to do with how the quality of the Reforged campaign was, people have proven by fact that they can make exceptionally better missions with more interesting and complex design, more beautiful terrain, then Blizzard did with the original War3 Campaigns, and even the fanmade Reforged ones.
So the fact that you and DSG pile in the fault of the existing engine for not having a quality campaign is literally an abject lie, within the confines of the WIII engine the reworked campaign could be leagues and bounds better then the original and what Reforged was. that point will never change and will remain permanently true. the only thing you 2 have against me on this is âugh, but its not sc2â WELL I DONâT GIVE A TOSS ABOUT STAR FREAKING CRAFT OF THE TWO TIMMYâS UNDER THE SUN. such an utter disregard for existing proven work was never been so heavily ignored in my life.
Depends on how you want to see it, from my point of view:
Ladder
Clans
Player-profiles
Clan Chat, Lobby Chat
Better servers
Region lock melee players, un-region lock custom player (it was better this way before RF)
This is done with W3Champions service, so why bother wasting their time when they could support a community tool that already familiarized people with all these goodies for such a long time now, to come and instantly put a middle finger and waste effort on redoing a version that will be inferior seems like a pointless task to me.
W3Champions also went as far as to add Reign of Chaos matchmaking, and several popular custom maps that would be able to use their superior and more stable servers, its almost as if these people care about the game and do small fan service things as opposed to Blizzard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
now after all of thatâs done, or not done because they already exist, how about:
Fix the crappy UI
Fix SD graphics still remaining minor bugs
Custom Campaigns added with full functionality that they used to have.
About a whole mountain of bugs, world editor related or otherwise that are infesting the game abroad.
Stop forcing the display area of Hotkeys positions on ability description for custom mapmakers. a specific example to show the amount of minor things in need of fixing, if i want my ability hotkey to be [ (Q) Stormbolt ], i canât do it, because the game forces it to be [ Stormbolt (Q) ].
Introduce Classic Asset Only download feature.
Re-introduce the Filter option with more revised abilities to check a list of categories, hit apply and filter the custom lobby with it.
Make a visual distinction between SD and HD mode by introducing a new UI skin tuned for SD mode, including the Reforged logo and most importantly bringing back all of the old animated 3D backgrounds by taking what exists, either making it happen or taking a controlled high quality video of it and putting it on loop in the SD mode of the new UI. and to have it as an icing on the cake, allow people to choose the main backgrounds of both RF HD and SD mode with its respective different available backgrounds.
Iâm not taking a single step backwards from any of these wishes, its especially important to highlight the ones connected to making a visual distinction for SD mode, they force updated our game with no respect that means they are hence obligated to make sure that the visual and functional aspects of the game is maintained for both audiences of the game.
If some morally high-horse douchebag comes on his steed and says the RF HD people have what they have with the RF mainmenus and everyone else who doesnât prefer it doesnât get an option and should just beat it can consume my wooden basket full of eggplants.
Okay well iâm not going to repeat myself then, your solution is, well, maybe we should start saying was, to just change the engine, mine was to simply make resources suitable for it since they already had made up their mind about using the existing engine, the decision to use the existing engine was an active and well thoughtout debate because they explained clearly that no matter how hard they tried they wouldnât be able to replicate Warcraft 3, in Starcraft 2. A remaster therefore needs something suited for it, instead of something suited for an offshoot sequel made for no one other then wow whales, because the resources and effort into the community structure created around W3 can not be so easily reproduced by brute company force, didnât happen with Fake esports of Hots instead of doing more grass-roots based structure like Lol or Dota 2, wonât happen by a fake attempt to try and remake what already exists.
Thatâs why i always disagreed with super large visual changes when you want to remaster the game. but no holding back to all the functional goodies we got.
Melee players before Reforged were more numerous then custom game players, and always will be more numerous on any game, the fact that Reforged has still not recovered from the missing things connected to those melee players thus affecting them to leave or take a break is an exceptional situation. any standard game with a modding/user-created content based structure, if it has a well-rounded base game, that base game was more popular in comparison, melee players are also far better organized because of the simplicity of their situation, and are always taken more seriously in tournaments as opposed to custom games.
Im happy that the exploits are fixed, and any future update or brainstorming about the destiny of this game would undoubtedly involve getting these fixed i wouldnât hesitate, but yeah at this point youâre so overly dramatic about the situation you can go hound in the void about the impending doom of a country breaking apart because of a warcraft 3 patch. in this part, you remain pathetic.
Again i think youâre overblowing the issue in a clever way, using the simplistic base of the W3 visuals and simply superboosting it within the idea i said, like doing models and visuals and textures that are best suited for the game, with the chance that there can always be minor graphics engine tweaks for fixing these issues instead of a larger scale one using bloatware models that they have to be forced to backpedal because of the horrendous amounts of problems and visual inconsistency, would simply be better and is framed specifically to take your idea of a mostly untouched game and transition it into an amazing remaster that still doesnât touch the core of the game too much.
This is doable DSG, you donât need ScII for this. and the bonus feature behind a remaster of war3 that was so criminally ignored would be to capitalize on the existing mountains of resources and content and compatible tutorials and guides and just running with it, all that needed to happen for this community to evolve, already did happen with the patches running from 1.27 to 1.31.1 we just needed the last icing on the cake to set everything in stone. all we needed was something faithful to help us pass the final torch of evolution.
You complaining about issues that exist with the existing engine for a suggestion that i provided that is best suited for the existing engine sounds to me like you have nothing to say against this approach other then to just retreat back to complaining about an Imperfect game.
If you compare Age 2âs soundtrack to the Definitive Edition youâll get a context of what i mean, or, Command and Conquer Remastered, the soundtrack is always one of the areas that people can more universally agree on a better recomposed re-creation, but it has to be better, not worse, thatâs why Age2DE succeeded, and still allowed a toggle option to the old one i think. but they succeeded in terms of the soundtrack because the majority of the people were extremely nostalgic about the old tracks yet the remastered ones managed to capture the same feel, and then some.
When you take away all the fluff and ambition associated with âReforgedâ and you tune it down to be similar to the suggestion i gave, which would actually mean the game would be very cheaper then it was, youâd have some leftover money to play around with âremakesâ that would be more universally accepted, like giving some extra life to the original soundtracks, a little more umf.
But i rest my case, you still havenât addressed the fact that you think Warcraft III deserves a lesser effort and quality remaster then Starcraft 1R, and then just be left to rot while all other efforts are transitioned into some fantesy project using the ScII engine. which most of the fans of WIII itself will not jump over because of a more complicated engine and a clean slate ground zero restart on all resources that were available, so you see no middle ground, and you are an extremist in this argument and all your fantesy is to drive WarIIIâs community into the same grave that ScII is (which you keep insisting that it isnât while knowing its no match for W3), i will never forgive you for having such criminally unappreciative look towards this game.
What these bad decision-makers donât understand is that the customer confidence they lost in botching War3R (and WoW) cannot be regained.
I wonât give my money to there next projects, because I know who they are. They are the butchers of my games. Not a company in which I can put trust and money.
I think they lost more than they gained by abandoning W3R.
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Youâre not going to make WC3âs music better, youâre only ever going to end up with something different. Most of AoE2âs new music sounds like all they did was use/add samples with more range.
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Just an idea, iâm can agree with you, but i guess, i donât know, i bet Blizzard wouldnât really spend time really passionately thinking about how can you properly remaster the music so they canât really do anything other then something poor. oh well.
Age of Empires 2 was released long before Warcraft III. I doubt the audio in it was equal quality.
For an example of what I mean, look at any recent Nintendo âremasterâ. Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, e.t.c. all have as good as the same sound track. These games already had excellent, modern, sound tracks to begin with so did not need new or even significantly changed ones.
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w3 champions has 2000 active players per day of which 2/3rds play 1v1 - add people from standard bnet matchmaking (a few hundred maybe) aswell as those people playing custom games (how many can those be?) and we still end up with a pretty smoll playerbase.
age of empires 2 DE has between 20.000 and 30.000 players per day.
the wc3 classic tournament at blizz headquarters with grubby playing and commenting had over 35.000 viewers on twitch - how many viewers does warcraft 3 have now? a few hundred to a few thousand when grubby streams.
nothing blizz does to this dumpster fire changes anything. the attention and big player base is gone and some patches 2 years late bringing back what w3c already does isnt gonna change that.
its a dead game and no one cares for ladder profiles at this point - its just slightly more alive than the corpse that quake champions is. most of the initial target audience doesnt even have the game installed anymore.
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Yeah youâre right about that, and iâm not exactly aiming to question the quality of the produced tracks, i just wish they a little more life added to them, looking back at some of my favourite tracks from C&C, Rise of Nations/Legends and games like Strongholds and Age of EmpiresâŚ
I mean the tracks that really gives me goosebumps in Warcraft 3 is the Orc one at the start of the Reign of Chaos campaign, Rexxars tracks, so lively yet in a subtle way, night elves have that one track where it always gives me the feelsâŚ
But i feel like all the other ones could have been better, perhaps this is a job for a Music recompose contest in Hive, if i wanted to put it as accurately as i could i would say the amount of War3 tracks that fade into the background for me is more then the other games i mentioned, i really love some cool tracks and unlike other games, with W3 there wasnât a track that was playing midgame and i was just taken over by the musical magic happening, and iâm really prone to just giving up to the flow of cool tracks.
My Indian buddy really likes the Human track, and i ⌠think its okay, but i listened to one of that fanmade guitar cover in youtube of the same track and i was really taken over by the song. the quality is absolutely there, the highs and lows and the whole tracks of W3 really have proper effort and magic into them, just using some extra beat and more energizing instruments and youâre good to go.
I would wager that blizz may end up shutting down overwatch 2 if more people begin to leave the games after all this crap, the WoW Exodus, the lawsuit, this article, WC3R. Hell if this keeps up its only a matter of time before ACTi vision wallet gets effected (if it has not started to already). We know Bobby only cares for money so if blizzard suddenly loses its possible that the share holders will take note and maybe demand either
1: Blizzard and ACTi vision separate
2: ACTi vision sells Blizzard and the newly added Vicarious Visions to some other company (Maybe Dreamhaven since most blizz employees went there)
3: (this one is worst case scenario) Shut down Blizzard. However that may do more harm than good as it may back fire and cause players who play CoD to up and quit as well.
Just my opinion and theory. A company can old go so long with doing bad business before the share holder take note, get worried and demand change or else.
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Dear Blizzard, can you please reconsider to ârevitalize a classicâ by reviving and implementing the above mentioned revamped game scripts and re-recorded dialogues? Thank you.
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We arenât?
What made Blizzard famous and rich? WoW, which was an MMORPG based on an RTS⌠Blizzard games used to be enjoyable no matter genre they technically fit under. That is one of the reasons why it is so bad they never bothered to fix WC3R, itâs like they donât care about their reputation at all. I donât recognize this Blizzard.
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I truly hope we will see the Diablo II: Resurrected team working on Warcraft 3: Reforged once D2: R is released. They can do some basic maintenance on Starcraft: Remastered as well. Vicarious Visions was great with remasters. Let them handle the Classic Games titles.
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How do you know? Is there a source somewhere that says this or is it just a hunch? Because back in early March there was an interview where they said they are pretty much out of things to remaster, and that going forward we can expect to see some new stuff. Also that their development pipeline is as rich as ever, with new teams working on new games. They might want Vicarious VIsions to focus on new games that look more promising instead of on a game you say management saw as a dead horse. By now its lost most of its momentum and most people have moved on from it.
You say Reforged still has a maintenance team of sorts which may be all that management wants to give it at this point. Maintenance sounds more like fixing bugs, server stability, compatibility and optimization, but that could include new patches, and maybe theyâll still do balance changes and map rotations. Finishing the missing features of the original game that were cut out would be more than just maintenance. It could happen, but maybe thatâs why itâs taking so long.
So youâre saying they shouldâve been separate games like Diablo 2 Resurrected and Diablo 2 Classic? With a split player base? Because a true remake would almost certainly have to be separate to preserve Warcraft 3 Classic. Although they didnât want to split the player base, they probably wouldnât have lost as many players overall if they kept the games separate. But one of the games still could have ended up with a small player base, and that could still have been Reforged.
Separating the games by restoring the original version with battle.net is maybe one of the best things Blizzard could do for fans of that version. But for Reforged to be a true remake, with a new engine, campaign and other features, theyâve have to make big changes or Re-reforge an already released game that lost most of its momentum and players. What are the chances of them doing either of those things? If anything, finishing the missing features of the original game sounds more likely.