Humans need some rebalance changes

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
1

This race for long doesnt needed of pure nerfs or buffs, its design of this race is lacking logic and common sense, particularly because of Arch mage.

What i’m even talking about, let see - second most popular first hero pick for human is MK, tanky hero with lierally death coil with a long @ss stun as first ability, basically melee frost nova, and one of the best passives in the game, guess his first pick rate popularity? - 13.2% due to w3champions statistics, other two heroes pala have 6.5% first pick popularity, and blood mage have lowest first pick popularity in the game - 3.4%. But ok, last two is garbage as carry hero, but even one of the strongest heroes in the game (MK) have such low first pick popularity because Arch mage. This abomination have 320 move speed, water taurens (what he can summon multiple of them) what gives you insane and cheap (because your militia, footies or hero etc doesnt tank camps) creep of neutrals, but thats not all, second problem about this hero is one of the best aura in the game yet which absolutely mandatory for all human mana using units, especially because human casters are not like other ones from other races (except banshees but ud have statues), humans casters are “spammers”, yet have the same basic mana regen as nonspammer casters of other races, and without AM they go oom even with t3 grades even without using their t3 and t2 grade abilities, just by spamming their basic spells, yet with am 2nd lvl aura they doesnt go oom even on t2 while spamming everything, same with breakers\hawks.

This two reasons - insane and free clear speed of am plus aura makes him basically mandatory hero, and even super mega hysterically strong mountain king have only 13% of first hero pick rate and count as “cheese” option, and i dont even talk about 2 other loosers as human heroes.

No other race are not THAT restricted to meta first hero pick, and statistics shows it very well, and this is just unfun and was bad designed even 20 years ago standards, but for nowadays standards is just hilariously bad and just not fun to play as or against it.

My suggestions:
(numbers not final, its just hint from me where to go).

  1. The unthinkable - nerf am, make his elem 425\600\825 hp instead of 500\625\825, and his aura 0.5\1\1.5 instead of 0.75\1.25\2.
  2. Buff alliance casters for 0.25 mp\sec additional mana regen, and 0.13 mp\s to breakers and hawks (that will make am first hu vs hu braker\caster duel still in huge favor for AM first, but make mana using units of alliance more independent from AM in other matchups)
  3. revert last MK buffs for his passive - it was totally fine b4 buff, and make storm bolt 70 mana cost instead of 75 but nerf duration of stun from 5\3 (unit\hero) to 4\2.5 seconds.
  4. Give HU instead of useless mechanical animal in shop - actually summon, lets call it mechanical tools - rise from any corpse the mechanical yeti, 100g cost, 2 charges, melee something-to-something damage, 425 hp, type mechanical (God, how much did i say mechanical?) - ALL numbers are not final at all, just direction for the race buff.
  5. Paladin - totally great support yet totally gimmick as first hero pick, my suggestion. Aura - instead of 2\4\6 armor, make it 1.5\3\5 BUT give it additionally 0.5 per rank hp regen.
  6. Last but not least… Blood mage, this handsome poor excuse of a hero, even on his “main role”, as support he is in meta only as siphon-astral support for AM vs demon hunter elf, or meh-level support-mana-battery for mk or pala first heroes(what is rarely by itself, and pure non meta cheese). My honest suggestion for this hero - he need full rework, but knowing how community of warcraft 3 “loves” big changes and how blizzard “loves” to do something for the game i believe its just not possible at all, SO i got few lesser changes:
  1. Make flame strike instant, cost 110 mana instead of 135, make 40\75\100 damage instead of 45\80\110 per second, have no burned ground damage effect after initial spell fired, cd change from 10 to 9 seconds. This spell will still be “unique”, still countering by moving units, BUT actually do damage yet in cost of this damage and post spell damage effect, so less abusable for harassing’s runs on enemy base with invisibility.
  2. Mana siphon - drain 10\20\30 mana per second instead of 15\25\40, have the same cd for 6 seconds BUT have 3 seconds drain duration instead of 6. - That will rescue blood mage from misery existence of being only mana battery for other heroes, and give him at least some window to actually hit something instead of cosplaying ghost busters in all fights.

P.S. Once again - numbers are NOT final, its more like direction of mine vision what can be healthy for race variability and just fun to play as and against, instead of am in 90% matches from grass elo to 95% in tournaments. Feel free to wish me everything you want if you actually reed this, and sorry not sorry for my English (London is the capital of Great Britain) and have a good day.

2

I agree that Archmage being the single most dominating first hero choice across all race by a landslide is something to tackle for more variety. According to W3Champions Heroes statistics, as of right now Archmage is picked as first hero 77% of the time, while the runner-ups Death Knight and Demon Hunter both only around 60%, so it’s clearly the biggest offender of lack of variety.

I do think the primary culprit of this is Brilliance Aura and the Human casters being balanced around its existence. If you nerf the impact of Brilliance Aura and give caster builds an alternative way to be properly playable, that should help a lot. I don’t think it’ll ever make Archmage obsolete as a first hero pick - he is the only Human hero with a summonable unit outside of ultimates, which is always going to be tremendously helpful in early game - but having army-wide mana regeneration tied to this hero (which again the race is then naturally balanced around) atop of that is too much.

My suggestion to tackle this in a unique way is the following:

Replace the Scroll of Regeneration and Lesser Clarity Potion in the Arcane Vault with a Lesser Scroll of Replenishment at a price of 200 gold. This is a consumable item with 1 charge that restores 250 HP and 100 Mana to all nearby units over a period of 45 seconds, cancelled if attacked.

This gives Human a unique out-of-combat way of replenishing the mana of its caster units, preparing them for a fight, while still keeping Brilliance Aura having the advantage of working for free and during ongoing combat just as well.

This change comes with upsides and downsides - obviously you get to regenerate mana of many units at once including multiple heroes and casters which is huge; but also regenerating health and mana is now a package deal, you can’t simply buy only a Scroll of Regeneration or only a Clarity Potion, only this scroll that more or less does both at once and at a higher price (200 compared to 100 + 70). Also Clarity Potion gave its full 100 mana recovery over only 30 seconds while this scroll gives it over 45, so it’s a good bit slower. Still, this allows some unique benefits such as restoring mana of Shadow Troll Priest mercenaries as well while also still having counterplay since the replenishment effect can still be cancelled with a single attack and is now actually very expensive to have happen.

Obviously if you do this you must also reduce the power of Brilliance Aura, otherwise you only superbuff Archmage first strategies instead of evening things out. I’d suggest reducing it to 0.6/1.1/1.6 mana per second to start with.

I’m not sure how this will work out in practice or what other changes would be needed to make this work, but I think it’d be worth trying, to see if this allows for playing Arcane Sanctum more without Archmage as well. Obviously you can also just increase baseline mana regeneration of casters, but I think this is a more interactive way of tackling the issue.

3

Your suggestion is OK, but have 1 basic flaw - AM will be the best abuser of this scroll in the game, but my goal is make heroes of alliance at least somehow closer to be equal (am and mk will be still dominating in popularity, but less mandatory).

4

Most of the changes except 5 will lead to the fact that playing for an alliance against the undead will become even more difficult than it is now. Happy has been dominating tournaments for the last 3 years and now he will dominate even more. The Alliance was already the weakest race, and now it will become even weaker.

1.The unthinkable - nerf am, make his elem 425\600\825 hp instead of 500\625\825, and his aura 0.5\1\1.5 instead of 0.75\1.25\2.

Playing as an archmage was already hard, especially against the undead, but here it will become even harder. Due to the lower vitality of elementals and their smaller number, it will be more difficult for the archmage to fight with neutrals, and more difficult to harass the enemy base.
A deterioration in aura in general will lead to the fact that all heroes and creatures with alliance mana will have less of it than now. As a result, the alliance from the weakest race will turn into complete crap for which no one will play.
Bad change 1.

  1. Buff alliance casters for 0.25 mp\sec additional mana regen, and 0.13 mp\s to breakers and hawks (that will make am first hu vs hu braker\caster duel still in huge favor for AM first, but make mana using units of alliance more independent from AM in other matchups)

Spellbreakers and Hawks will have a little more mana, Spellbreakers to recast various spells, and Hawks will have more ability to cast fog on enemy towers.
Hawks can already cast fog on enemy towers; they do not have a lack of mana for this.
Re-enchanting buffs and debuffs will not help in any way, for example, against a DC + lich, or a Seer + tauren, against a DC + guardian of the grove. And most of all, the alliance suffers from these heroes.
Bad change 2.

  1. revert last MK buffs for his passive - it was totally fine b4 buff, and make storm bolt 70 mana cost instead of 75 but nerf duration of stun from 5\3 (unit\hero) to 4\2.5 seconds.

As a result of this, it will be more difficult for the alliance to kill enemy heroes, and especially the undead. The Alliance kills undead heroes due to the fact that they do not have time to use a health bottle, or a teleport scroll, or a “contract with death”. Reducing the stun time will make the alliance kill them even less, and people will become a weaker race.
Reducing the mana cost of Storm Bolt by 5 is clearly not worth the reduction in stun time. Stun time is more useful than 5 mana.
Bad change 3.

  1. Give HU instead of useless mechanical animal in shop - actually summon, lets call it mechanical tools - rise from any corpse the mechanical yeti, 100g cost, 2 charges, melee something-to-something damage, 425 hp, type mechanical (God, how much did i say mechanical?) - ALL numbers are not final at all, just direction for the race buff.

If this creature can be destroyed by dispel, then it will be almost useless against another player. And why does the alliance need another summoned creature if it can already summon water elementals very often? The Archmage already knows how to fight well with neutrals at the expense of water elementals.
The Alliance would benefit greatly from better covert intelligence capabilities against other races than from another warrior.
It is much more useful for the alliance to know when the enemy has set up another base, to know his movements, or to know when he is going to attack the alliance during a battle with neutrals, than to have another summoned warrior.
To do this, I proposed replacing the useless mechanical sheep with a fake tree that can be placed next to others and then the alliance will know when the enemy has set up a base or when he is advancing on your territory.
Bad change 4.

  1. Paladin - totally great support yet totally gimmick as first hero pick, my suggestion. Aura - instead of 2\4\6 armor, make it 1.5\3\5 BUT give it additionally 0.5 per rank hp regen.

I have already suggested this before in my topic on changing the paladin, in point 6 on changing people

Good change 1, but I was the first to suggest it.

  1. Make flame strike instant, cost 110 mana instead of 135, make 40\75\100 damage instead of 45\80\110 per second, have no burned ground damage effect after initial spell fired, cd change from 10 to 9 seconds. This spell will still be “unique”, still countering by moving units, BUT actually do damage yet in cost of this damage and post spell damage effect, so less abusable for harassing’s runs on enemy base with invisibility.

Controversial Change 1. It is very likely that this will lead to the blood mage becoming too strong a hero, and it is very likely that this change will have to be reversed. It is better to speed up the time of casting a pillar of fire. Blizz has already done this and reduced it from 0.9 seconds to 0.8 seconds, but I think it won’t be enough. You need to do 0.7 seconds or even 0.6 seconds.

  1. Mana siphon - drain 10\20\30 mana per second instead of 15\25\40, have the same cd for 6 seconds BUT have 3 seconds drain duration instead of 6. - That will rescue blood mage from misery existence of being only mana battery for other heroes, and give him at least some window to actually hit something instead of cosplaying ghost busters in all fights.

Too much by the numbers. In this case, the blood mage will begin to leave all enemy heroes without mana, and probably even DH.
It would be possible to reduce the drying time from 6 to 5 or 4.5 seconds, but 3 seconds is too much. The blood mage will become too strong and this change will have to be reversed.
Controversial change 2.

In total, there are 4 bad changes, 2 controversial changes, and 1 good change, but this is the only good change that I came up with before.

6

The Archmage is chosen more often than other heroes because he has more opportunities to avoid taking damage than other heroes. The Archmage summons elementals that take most of the damage from neutrals. In addition, the archmage is a shooting hero, so he takes less damage than melee heroes and is more difficult to kill.

MK and the paladin have nothing to heal with. When they are chosen as the first hero for the first 6-7 minutes before the second hero comes out, they have the opportunity to be treated only with a scroll of gradual health restoration, but DK has the same opportunity. In an Alliance versus DK match, the undead have an additional opportunity to heal the DK with an aura before the second hero comes out, but the MK or paladin does not have such an additional opportunity. That’s why they choose an archmage.

The blood mage does not restore mana to the rest of the army, and he does not have elementals that take most of the damage from neutrals.

For this reason, the archmage is chosen as the first hero much more than others.
If a paladin, MK, or blood mage had the opportunity to heal with an aura like a DK, or take the majority of damage like an archmage’s elementals, then they would be chosen more often.

It all comes down to the ability to heal or not take damage. The undead have more of these capabilities, which is why they are stronger than the alliance. And within the alliance, the archmage has more opportunities to avoid taking damage to himself and his army than MK, paladin and blood mage. Therefore, the archmage is chosen more often than others.

You two and Feomatar have no systematic thinking at all. You are talking some kind of crap.

7
  1. i suggested weak summon in hu shop, if you reeded the thred - u will know it.
  2. Worst first hero in the game blood mage will be op with weaker but instant flame strike (basically weaker version of nova majority of damage of what can be dodged even as instant, dont hit air and hit your units), but 77% pick rate hero isnt op for you?)
  3. You are the one who suggested pala to heal himself with holy lights, champion who already have big invulnerability potion as ability at rank 1, i doubt that you have any idea what balance is.
  4. Once again - numbers are NOT final, my goal is buff underpowered heroes for alliance and nerf overpowered ones who take power budget from the race. Without am and mk humans will never ever win more that 1 of 50 games in tournaments, yet elf without dh will be fine - just pick keeper or warden, undead will be fine with nerfed dk - dl or cl or lich start, orcs are fine without farseer start - blade or even snakes start with sh or harras pla with tc, but humans have onlky arch mage and even totally overpowered tanky dwarf with coil with stun and melee nova are not viable because HOW strong human race designed around arch mage.

So stop talking total cr@p, you are one of 2 - or you just like the curent human meta and u just scripted elo maniac, who doesnt care about healthiness of the game and want elo in any cost or you just totally delusional. Go fap in your thred on your bull guano you write there… Freaking asking for buffing am and asking pala to have self heal with holy light, holly cr@p, you are unbelievable!

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8

When playing as a paladin as the first hero against a DK, the first hero in the majority of the game is the players learn the first skill (holy light and “coil”) and aura. Divine shield or “death pact” is not studied.

In practice, this leads to the fact that with the first skill the paladin and DC can inflict equal damage on each other with magic. But after the health of both heroes drops to low, the DK can continue to fight with neutrals, but the paladin cannot because his aura does not protect against magic and does not restore health. This leads to the fact that the undead become stronger in terms of the level of experience gained from neutrals and the number of artifacts dropped from them.

Therefore, the paladin is worse than the DK. Therefore, the paladin is never chosen as the first hero in tournaments. And therefore the undead are stronger than the alliance.

It is impossible to weaken any heroes or units of the alliance because it is already the weakest race without it. If you weaken the alliance in any way, it will become even weaker and the games will become even less interesting.

You are talking nonsense and have no idea about balance if you don’t understand simple things.

9

One last time - you suggest to buff support ability on s tier support, thats all i need to hear to know what is wrong with you.

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10

If you want Paladins to be able to self heal, that needs to be a separate ability that replaces either Divine Shield or Devotion aura. The ability to self-heal with Holy Light on top of healing others and invulnerability and an armor bonus on everything is just way too much power to give one hero.

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