So I was doing the Maiev missions in Reforged and was looking forward to the Gul’dan flashbacks in the Tomb of Sargeras. In the original game, in the second cutscene, he sees a shadowy demon that, back in the Old Times, was the focus of much discussion for lore fans as to its identity. The model was unique and all that fun stuff…
So behold my surprise when I see the flashback and, foolishly, expect a model resembling the Avatar of Sargeras from WoW:Legion, and instead we get the most epileptic shaky cam ever [also known as the technique you use when you don’t want the viewer to see crap] of a normal Doomguard model!
Im glad other people are annoyed at the model part, seemed like no one else in the world was interested in seeing what they did in reforged with that model, every day wowhead put up new models i jumped on it but it never came.
Then game comes out, same old doomguard and that wtf camera
Was it ever established in the lore who or what demon it was he saw? Doesn’t seem like it would make sense that Gul’dan would just see an ordinary Doomguard.
Kind of. At the time of Warcraft 3 Blizzard didn’t know if that was Sargeras or not, they refer to things as “the tomb of Sargeras” and “the remains of Sargeras” and later “the eye of Sargeras” and that Sargeras was missing at the time of W3. Later that was all retconned to just be a dormant avatar that was defeated and locked in the tomb.
What we can speculate is that Sargeras himself should up in the tomb at that moment just to laugh at Gul’dan. Chronicles Vol 2 say that Sargeras ordered Kil’jaeden to stand down and not punish Gul’dan, after he took a portion of the Horde to go after the tomb (and in doing so sealed the defeat of the Horde), because he wanted him to get close to his prize and then have the demons of the tomb kill him.
Yeah it can be debatable and a bit murky on who it actually was after all the retcons.
But i’ve always seen it as it was indeed Sargeras appearing to Gul’dan in the same way as Kil’jaeden did to both him and Ner’zhul on Draenor or Illidan in Outland.
My theory just thinking on a practicality point of view as well, giving him a set in stone model and look because of a 2 second ingame cutscene was probably not Blizzards first choice. I may be totally wrong here but i believe this would have been the first official image of Sargeras in the franchise when tft was being made, so they may not have been comfortable with current inhouse concepts of him at the time. (Even though he just ended up being a LeChuck lookalike when they did reveal him, fun fact: the voice actor of Lechuck in the Monkey Island games is the WoW race intro narrator).
So in the end they played it safe, prefered the idea of a big bad looming in the background who you never see, so they just slapped the closest model to current concepts already in game down and gave it 255 colours to mask it.
Would have been really cool to have had a proper Sargeras model though. But since he is the larger than life type so probably would look a bit ridiculous having him in custom games
Also I don’t know if it happened to you guys too but after the cutscene, the unit stays there and I killed it with Maiev and the rest of the group. Lame editing by Blizz since as far as I know it shouldn’t be there.
Actually I meant the “Sargeras” Gul’dan sees. After the cutscene it didn’t disappear from where it was and i was able to kill it which shouldn’t be supposed to happen
No he’s not, before TFT even came out it was already canon lore that Sargeras was not dead and had posessed Medivh to open the dark portal.
Even in WC2 despite the word “tomb” it’s debatable that Sargeras was originaly intended to be dead since it’s said in the manual from the point of view of Aegwynn herself that she BANISHED him to the tomb.
It was more of a prison than a grave. Sealed and sunk beneath the sea so no one could reach it.
It’s only in modern retcons where they clarified that Aegwynn had merely beat an avatar of Sargeras rather than Sargeras himself do they start to use words like death and corpse.
rofl bro, sargeras sent his being to azeroth ages ago in the form of an avatar. He got whooped though and lost his physical form, but because of this he was able to possess the unborn medivh, because he got whooped by medivh’s mother. After Medivh’s dead at the hands of lothar and apprentice guy he was pressumed bodyless again (yeah not 100% DED, but dead enough to no longer be the leader of the burning legion, that became archimonde and KJ). But ofc being a titan he might still be able to do some stuff, this is the original lore before retcons. but you nitpick me on the word ‘dead’ xd fine he wasn’t 100% dead but he was bodyless af
We know that Aegwyn sealed Sargera’s “avatar” in that Tomb (or atleast part of him) while the spirit of Sargeras went inside her unborn child (Medivh)…
So its bit confusing what the hell Sargeras was trying to achieve in all this? I know he wanted to use Medivh to let orcs loose from Draenor into Azeroth and wipe out humans and other races who might be a threat to Legion’s return…but what AFTER it? Was Sargeras always supposed to somehow get into Azeroth by getting his spirit and his “supposed body” inside the Tomb together or what…
And where did his spirit go after Medivh was killed? Back to Twisting Nether? honestly this part of Warcraft lore has NEVER made much sense to me, cause its so confusing. How he was able access Azeroth even in his “avatar” form in the first place…
Ive tried to read into this from multiple different sites, but it seems to me Blizzard themselves didnt quite know where to go with this when they wrote it
no rectons here mate. Never was it said that Sargeras died at any point. The W3 manual even says “he’s MIA” not dead. Sargeras power/spirit whent to Medivh’s mom and that’s just that, juts a little portion of him, and remember that hes a titan. So Chronicles and WoW:Legion didn’t retcond nothing
we’re talking about after and it WAS retconned or did you not see the giant sargeras at the end of legion? Also I do not appreciate adressing only one part of what I said, if you want to converse, join on topic not just whatever caught your eye
Uh… yeah they did. He was dead. There’s no way a Titan just goes “MIA” like that, not when they’ve made it their life’s mission to destroy all life in the universe.