I believe undead melee builds are underwhelming. I suggest renaming “Ghoul Frenzy” to something like “Undead frenzy” or whatever and make it affect abominations.
Or just add another buff for abominations only.
I would like to see more games with dreadlord+abominations.
Aboms are primarily used as meatshields, so I think something that synergizes with that would be good. I think attack speed buff detracts a bit from their slow, lumbering monstrosity identity.
I like the idea of Hearthstone’s Sludgebelchers, Aboms that spawn slimes upon death. The slimes are low HP minions that would also benefit from Disease Clouds. I have a few ideas to spice up this idea. I say a combo of any one or two effects below would work
I also had an idea to spice up the use of ghouls.
Rise from the Grave
This on death effect sweetens using them as a sacrifice target during battle. Cast Unholy Frenzy, you still get a battle ghoul for short duration. Auto-ressing also helps keep surrounds when ghouls die off.
Additional attack speed doesn’t fit the unit. Instead it should receive an upgrade similar to what Knights get.
Disease cloud is better now, but the Unit itself still has weak stats which don’t justify the cost. But of course UD has to use this unit because they have no better melee unit, just like UD has to use Destroyer which were nerfed several times in a row because they have no other dispel option.
I would recommend something like additional damage vs Medium and Unarmored enemies. The unit wields axe and a hook so it should deal a lot of damage to unarmored targets. This is exactly what Abominations need.
Currently mass Archers easily beat Aboms, just like Dryads or upgraded Riflemen which themselves will usually end up quite tanky with devotion aura and healed by the Paladin. With the Addition of the new Fire Orb Abominations do not work well as tanks anymore. If they dealt a little more damage you could still micro against them, but hopefully not to an extend that makes this unit seem hopeless and out of place like Ghouls.
Huge buffs to Stomp and Clap didn’t help either. Changes like these will forever shut down any Undead melee options and prevent Undead from having different army compositions even though everyone wants more options for Undead.
Undead lack siege damage (only 1 siege dmg unit compared to other races which have 3 each).
Abominations and Ghouls at tier 3 should have an upgrade for a vs fortified armor siege damage attack.
I agree on the Siege damage part.
I think this problem could be solved if Meat Wagons were a little stronger. Faster speed and less exp would be a start.
And of course the age old problem of Ghouls. They just suck and are not worth using after t2. Thanks to buffed Clap, buffed stomp, Nightelfs going mass air forcing you into mass fiends we will never see Ghouls used without a big change.
That change needs to be an HP upgrade on t2. If Ghouls had 40-60 more HP they would be usable. If Ghouls had just a little more HP I wonder if using Anti-magic barrier and frost armor would turn them into a viable option? Its atleast worth a try.
This wouldn’t break the NE Matchup either because mass Archers currently beat Ghouls handily even on t1 without extra range on their attacks. On t2 the Alchemist or Panda will come in, along with extra Range for Ghouls and the eventual Hipporider transition. Blizzard ended up buffing Headhunters, Huntresses and Riflemen, which are all core units of each race and it didn’t break the game but instead allowed for new strategies which is healthy for the game.
However Undead has only received big stat nerfs on their core units like statues and destroyers. Even Frost Wyrms were nerfed into the ground. Ironically once Blizzard nerfed Bears, they reverted the nerf because of the outrage by all the Nightelf players. Yet the whole warcraft community wants more unit and hero variety for Undead and not much has happened.
You can’ expect players to suddenly come up with new and innovative strategies if you keep nerfing units instead of adding an incentive to use different units like Ghouls, Aboms, Necromancers and Gargoyles. And especially not if you make changes like you did to clap and stomp. Garg AI makes them unusable and Necromancers are worse than before.
Good discussion. Ghoul and abom need buff.
To compensate for lack of siege units wagons should give less xp and move/rotate faster. Kappa makes sense