Here’s another idea from me: the Elemental Attribute System for each race faction! See below what it’s about:
What is “Element Attribute”?
• Races are assigned an element against another race, taking some extra, moderate, or reduced damage from that race.
• Alliance organic units are all Light elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Dark elemental organic units and spells.
• Alliance organic units are all Light elemental units, also taking 30% reduced damage from other Light elemental organic units and spells.
• Scourge organic units are all Dark elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Light elemental organic units and spells.
• Scourge organic units are all Dark elemental units, also taking 30% reduced damage from other Dark elemental organic units and spells.
• Sentinel organic units are all Earth elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Wind elemental organic units and spells.
• Sentinel organic units are all Earth elemental units, also taking 30% reduced damage from other Earth elemental organic units and spells.
• Horde organic units are all Wind elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Earth elemental organic units and spells.
• Horde organic units are all Wind elemental units, also taking 30% reduced damage from other Wind elemental organic units and spells.
• Burning Legion organic units are all Fire elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Water elemental organic units and spells.
• Burning Legion organic units are all Fire elemental units, taking 30% reduced damage from other Fire elemental organic units and spells.
• Armada (Naga) organic units are all Water elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from Fire elemental organic units and spells.
• Armada (Naga) organic units are all Water elemental units, taking 30% reduced damage from other Water elemental organic units & spells.
• Corrupted organic units are all Beam elemental units, taking 30% extra damage from other Beam elemental organic units and spells.
• Corrupted organic units are all Beam elemental units, taking 30% reduced damage from other non-Beam elemental organic units and spells.
• Corrupted organic units are all Beam elemental units, taking moderate damage from non-elemental organic & mechanical units & spells.
• All mechanical units are Non-elemental units, taking no extra damage from any organic race units and spells or from other mechanical units.
• All Structures are also all Non-elemental, taking no extra damage from any organic race units and spells or from other mechanical units.
• Creep organic units are Ice elemental units, taking 30% reduced damage from other Ice elemental units.
• Tavern Heroes are Thunder elemental Heroes, taking 30% extra damage from other Thunder elemental Heroes. It has no opposite but itself.
• All damage spells are Non-elemental damage spells, for most of them are just elemental cosmetics.
Why throw more ingredients into a still unstable mix (especially with current balance changes around already existing numerical values and designs) for the sake of it?
Sorry. I forgot to be more specific earlier. I mean you did say it is fun to you, but only in custom games. But I still think it’s more fun in official Ladder games, where points and percentages are on the line for Ladder players.
It’s almost like there’s a lot of factors already involved in the outcome of a Warcraft 3 match without needing to throw in anything else that’s outright unnecessary.
We already have stuff like turn rate, animation timers (backswings and damage points), damage types, defense types. I think it’s fair to say that those are enough of a general learning curve for melee play.
Elemental attributes are better off in Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Warframe, genuinely anything else where that’s been more prevalent since day #1 rather than 15 years later.
Or better yet, a Warcraft 4. A full sequel. Maybe then they’ll do something.
Spells already have elemental attributes assigned to them and ultimately with few exceptions those have no impact on how much damage abilities do. If Blizzard wanted elements to impact gameplay they already would. Elemental damage was likely cut around the time the game moved from a third person RPG to an RTS game.
The new trigger functions can be used to detect spell elemental attributes. For example Flame Strike will deal fire damage, Blizzard will deal Cold damage and Shadow Strike will deal poison damage.
This type of system plays into the idea of Hard Counter strategy, or what we tend to consider ‘Rock Paper Scissors’ balance. Everything has an appropriate strength and weakness.
While WC3 already has elements of this with its armor system, multiplayer melee is more complex due to spells and Heroes. We like to think that armies and unit types are what counters other army compositions, but in reality Heroes account for a majority of army damage through various means.
So in theory, an army of melee should tear through an army of ranged due to how armor types and damage types work on paper, but that isn’t true because Heroes have massive sway in battle.
The same reason is why this element system, while fun to have, wouldn’t fit WC3 gameplay. WC3 isn’t unit-centric, even if some units are designed as hard counters. They are tools to support your Hero. There is also a lot of depth to micro skill and how units are used in battle, like bodyblocking and shadowmeld micro.
Then, if people don’t like it, perhaps only a 10% Extra Damage / 10% Reduced Damage ratio would do then? That way, it is pretty close to being more “normal”…
Well I still have some issue with how you are presenting some of your ideas.
If Fire takes less damage from Fire, then any same-race matchup just means games take longer because all units deal less damage to each other. Its not like you can counter this by cboosing a different unit types in game, if you are Burning Legion and your opponent is Burning Legion, then your game is 3x longer because all units are taking 1/3 damage. There is no strategic value to this.
This idea seems only useful in team games like 4v4, where you have actual armies trying to gain advantage over each other, or an FFA setting. But this game is designed and balanced around 1v1, and this doesn’t make much sense.
Each race is meant to be self-contained and able to stand toe-to-toe with every other race. Races aren’t meant to counter each other, otherwise you will just leave game every time you have a bad matchup against someone you are weak to instead of wasting time fighting an uphill battle.
I thought you were very pro-change? I mean, you could throw that same argument towards the Campaign itself. Not bashing this time, just curious how this fits with your pro-Campaign-Balance-Changes stance.