If different shaders and texture renders for you means completely different engine - you are really wrong. Shaders is a thing that can be added to the engine,you don’t need other engine for that
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This can be added to some engines, and with some limitations. The Warcraft 3 engine is now cracking at the seams, Blizzard is panicking, they are shifting the release date, and you re trying to prove to me that the situation is being controlled, hahah))
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I remind you that Engine was upgraded and delaying release date means better product.
Reforged is gonna be an awesome game
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They need a month to sort out the development team. They will decide who to punish, fine, fire. The game will change, but just a little.
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How can people be so agressive? Stop demonizing a good company
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There is. The evidence I posted above with the path finder among many aspects.
The Warcraft III engine did run the Arthas vs Illidan cinematic. You can even place it in World Editor and the quality of playback was far too high to be pre-rendered back in 2004 odd.
One can probably use it if one hooks it up. Just they decided not to use the revised UI after the general feedback for it was negative.
StarCraft II UI has been heavily revised over the years. UI revisions are possible. One can even fully customize the UI in Warcraft III 1.31 right now.
1.31 just adds classic shaders to emulate the old look of WC3, replacing the D3D7 style fixed function pipeline Warcraft III used up until then. Only in 1.32 beta are the reforged shaders available and in use, and one should be able to specify depth of field somewhere when making a Reforged map.
I do not have the 1.32 beta to confirm.
Nowhere can I find reference to the StarCraft II engine being called “Havok”. Closest I found was the following which backs up what I already said.
The game previously featured the Havok physics engine, which allowed for more realistic environmental elements such as “debris rolling down a ramp” which has since been replaced with a custom physics engine.
Havok is not a game engine. It is a physics engine which was used for graphical effects. Many games add this physics engine as part of their game engine but it is not a game engine. It has since been replaced with a custom physics engine in StarCraft II.
Because such special models were likely used for the 2018 demo cutscenes. This is very common for Blizzard in modern times as it is exactly how StarCraft II did the interlude cutscenes. These models look a ton better than the actual melee and gameplay models.
1.31 likely added shader support already, since I do not think the legacy D3D7 fixed function pipeline still exists in D3D11. The 2018 demo likely was showing a pre-release version of the 1.31 graphic code running the reforged shaders.
A lot of the issues is likely due to cross compatibility. For the 2018 demo they could build a Reforged only build and not have to deal with classic features and optimize around that. With 1.32 this is not the case and they have to be sure that both classic and reforged graphics are supported by the code.
Blizzard being Blizzard it is just a typical development delay for them. Making changes probably is taking longer than expected, as has always been the case with the WC3 engine, so they have to push the entire development cycle back a month.
The issue is not making Reforged work, it is making sure more than just 1 demo map made specifically for the Reforged code to run on works.
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Oh didn’t know that Starcraft 2 uses the same engine as Elder Scrolls Online
By the way, it’s already been said that the demo was running on SC2 engine.
Also, how did he get the campaign on the beta?
Well, this engine is part of a game engine that does not have a name … Something like that.
Your many explanations are encouraging, I hope you’re right. The release will put everything in its place.
But RTS games generally don’t use physics engines to compute collisions, they instead use a pre-defined ruleset. They could change the ruleset without changing entire engine, by replacing a small fragment of code. Just like classic WOW runs on retail engine with minor changes (hunter pets)
And the gameplay too? The graphics differences are also easily visible during the gameplay.
They might as well thrown full game into the demo, don’t you think? But they didn’t because it wasn’t ready.
By the way, the official gameplay trailer looks more like what we’re getting than the demo. Still, the demo looks better.
There was some streamer who said that he interviewed the developers. It was on youtube somewhere. But don’t remember where exactly.
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Blizzard defenders completely ignore this fact in this thread
I watched the video from Blizzcon 2018 where there were a few words about it, but I don’t remember who spoke about it, unfortunately
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I’ve watched literally all the official footage, including all the BlizzCon panels and interviews and nowhere have they said that they had been using a new game engine. Rather they emphasized that Reforged is indeed in the same Warcraft 3 engine. Some youtuber speculating some random doesn’t mean anything.
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The key question is, why is the picture worse and worse? Is Blizzard’s eye sick? The player’s eyes are not sick.
Beta is getting better, Blizzard really want the game to look like demo 2018, but they can’t do it. Everything is fine with their eyes.
Can you explain why they put on a propaganda film to cheat people since they can’t?
They cannot make the visuals better (like Demo 2018), because the Warcraft 3 Reforged engine has limitations. Demo 2018 was made on a more modern engine to impress people and get money for pre-orders.
They probably could, but that’s not the point of the beta. They most likely haven’t done the optimization to make it run smoothly with all the graphic settings turned on - heck, it barely runs now - so they just turned them off for the beta. That doesn’t mean they don’t have those settings for the build they have on internal testing.
Oh geez… I don’t know whether to cry or laugh. Think for yourself: what on earth would they achieve by doing this huge work on some newer game engine, make it a playable demo and then just redo all that work on the WC3 engine and for the actual game? That just makes zero sense. Why is it for you so hard to understand that the demo was just one map that was optimized for just one purpose? It’s not like they could just copy-paste all the changes to make it magically work with the rest of the game.
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They imported models (models made for the release game) in the sc2 editor. They wrote some triggers to hide the specifics of the engine… Maybe something else. Work is done. Difficult?
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what about you show us how fast you can port the wc3 models into sc2 and remake the stratholme map in sc2 with original wc3 gameplay, pathing, controls, square hitboxes, effects and hud to prove your point. also dont forget to include working wc3 style fps and apm counters, while you’re at it.
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SC2 used the physics engine for animation. For example debris or corpses ragdolling around the terrain. Physics can be turned entirely off for slower systems as it is only visual.
The unit on unit collision used in SC2 is a lot more refined than in Warcraft III. In WC3 units would stop and try to path around other units. In SC2 they try to push through each other with some kind of physics like logic. Units in SC2 can even be compressed if enough of them are pushing towards a point.
Also as you emphisized, like how WoW classic is a modification of current WoW, Reforged is a modification of Warcraft III. They just replaced the “small fragment of code” that deals with the graphics with a more modern one. Some of the code could even be CnPed from SC2, Overwatch or Diablo III, seeing how they have the source code for those products and game shaders are often similar in some aspects.
The gameplay graphic differences are not easily visible because no one has the 2018 demo map to run in the beta of 1.32 to make a valid comparison. Too many variables to make such a call.
Yes, only the demo map was ready. Which was highly polished and likely used as a tool to decide how to move forward. The demo only had to run a few things such as the demo map so was polished just for that. Running any other custom map might have crashed instantly, but it could run the demos.
No one knows if it is worse since they do not have access to the campaign 2018 demo map running in 1.32 beta to do comparisons. They are comparing generic Warcraft III maps running with reforged graphics to a hand-crafted reforged map specifically designed to showcase all the new graphic features.
The demo might also have been running on NVLinked RTX 2080-tis on a Core I9 9900k or equivalent position at the time processor. Hardware that it is not reasonable to expect consumers to own.
And why can they not do it? The code magically deleting itself or something?
I must remind people that they might not want it to look exactly like the 2018 demo because based on feedback from the 2018 demo a big complaint was how difficult it was to resolve different unit types. Any visual differences with melee (not the demo campaign map) play would likely be due to that.
Limitations in what way? It uses D3D11 and programmable shaders like all Blizzard games.
They would have to completely overhaul the underlying engine of StarCraft II due to how different it is. Simple triggers are not enough. Unit on unit collisions was just one. Another is unit movement responsiveness. Another is target acquisition and attack responsiveness. Another is the entirely different terrain system.
At this point they might as well just port some of the StarCraft II graphic code over to the Warcraft III engine… Far less work.
Blizzard can port WC3 models very easily to SC2. They did so already as every single classic WC3 model is available in StarCraft II via an official mod. They were planning to recreate WC3 in SC2 but due to how different the engines were it was not worth their time so they just released all the ported assets including some HD assets for the heroes as well as some very incomplete WC3 imitation data.
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The 2018 demo is the real product they shown to us and we buyed to play this!
Not this 2019 beta with a completely strange look with weak graphics! Very bad and dissapointing!
Back please with the 2018 game look! If this game look the same of this 2019 beta in the release i really will go ahead with refund.
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