We don’t know yet, but it looks like the whole game (the maps) will be entirely redone.
Which I don’t mind, as long as we can also play the old campaing with the new graphics. If anything, it’s new content.
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A few things to be precise about:
- outland missions never actually went out of hellfire, there is just no need to go anywhere else
- illidan’s old prison is in fact in kalimdor, felwood if I’m not mistaken. The broken isles vault is a totally different one.
Also I find it a good change to update the campaign to modern lore, I mean come on, I’ve seen the old version a lot already
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Totally agree! That wouldn’t ‘stain’ the originality of the game, but bring it to an amazing parity with it’s successor!
Make a topic about Grom Hellscream being Blade Master or the more lore accurate Orc warrior.
Reached my topic limit =\
It should be consistent with WoW.
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I personally think that they re-did the voice lines for Jaina, given how she has an active role in current WoW and a different voice actor. In the case of Arthas, there isn’t any development on him with his non-LK voice since Warcraft, and as such I don’t think they’ve brought the guy in to revise the voice lines since the VA for his non-LK hasn’t ever changed.
Otherwise, I think that the revised Warcraft will have support for drastically larger maps, while competitive ladder maps most likely will follow the same map sizes as WRC3 had, given that support for 24 players in multiplayer is likely, and that the Campaign is a different story than Skirmish maps, I hope that the Editor will have the ability to create larger map sizes for custom and campaign.
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I might get some flak for this but I would strongly prefer they don’t move forward on this changing of all the campaign missions, or at least have versions with the original layouts though that would likely be too much work. I loved Warcraft 3’s campaign and world. I’m not a fan of WoW. I want to play Warcraft 3 Reforged, not WoW the RTS.
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There will most likely be an option to play the old version too. Also, it’s not going to be “WoW the RTS”: the story and gameplay is gonna be same, they are most likely gonna just change the looks a bit and modify it to match the lore they established and retconned in WoW and in other sources, like novels and other books. I think it’s only good thing to make it consistent with the overall story. You can always go play Classic WC3 if you want the vanilla experience, imo. There are a lot of things that didn’t really make any sense nowadays, like the Draenei and The Lost Ones, which got totally overhauled with Burning Crusade.
I really wish people would stop using the argument “just go and play the old one”. I currently do play the old one. I want the new one to be like the old one in style, gameplay and lore. QOL changes and graphics are kind of the point of a remaster, or a reforge as they are calling it. Other changes are of course going to be contentious, and I’m not going to pretend that my opinion on if the game should changed to fit better with new lore is some how more valid than yours but I’m still going to stand by it. Because that is what would make this the best possible remaster for me. I hate a lot of the lore changes that occurred in the shift to WoW.
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You are wrong. When you meet Akama he’s in a draenei village and you assault Black Temple. Both places are not located in Hellfire Peninsula. It’s just that Outland as a zone was not fully developed yet.
When you for example play the campaign map where you close 4 different demonic portals it is on a big map. The map can be made so that it spans accross different Outland zones. So that you see when you enter Terokkar forest, Hellfire and Shadowmoon valley.
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The lore of Warcraft is really a bunch of Earth people having fun. It should stay this way. If you read Warcraft 3 handbook, it says that Sargeras was a Titan corrupted by the Eredar. If you played Burning Crusade, the Eredar were Draenei corrupted by Sargeras. So, at the end of the day, where did Sargeras come from? Truth be told, it did not matter as long as the games were compelling, interesting, and fun. Classic Warcraft 3’s campaign was amazing and had good character depth while also engaging the player to care about what was going on because of the significance of gameplay mechanics and challenges. Do I remember the battle against Cenarius because it covered the storyline of Grom’s fall to the control of Mannoroth, or because of how much I learned the importance of Anti-Air Units? At the end of the day, the significance of the storyline message was entirely cancelled in WoW’s Cataclysm and Cenarius gets revived by magic on Hyjal whenever he is needed – just like we would expect of a Warcraft 3 hero.
I was agreeing with the sentiment that new campaign missions would be good because I want to try to have fun that I did not foresee yet. When I look at the cool statue, and the epic walls of Stratholme in this Reforged alpha build, what I see is fantastic new potential for available doodads and terrain textures in the World Editor. Modern players of Warcraft 3 custom games, like me, are inundated with years and years of fan-based labor building custom models and content and want to inherently assume “the community will make custom maps because they love this game” which I believe is the assumption that fuel’s Starcraft 2’s modding scene, if it exists.
To me, what made Warcraft 3 maps great (and the reason that my old favorites from 10 years ago didn’t stand up when I tried to get modern Warcraft 3 players to play them) was that all of the stuff in the campaign was built as modular components available in the World Editor. So in the early days, there was no bar to modding, you could click on something that you didn’t even know was from the campaign that fit your use case and looked good. When you look at Starcraft 2’s advanced campaign GUIs for choosing new techtrees and systems, obviously building a modular system-builder to allow anyone to make campaigns like that would be a momentous task. Instead, they made an editor that was usable to the people making the game. And it’s been usable by really dedicated fans.
What made Warcraft 3’s editor great was that around the time it first came out, all of the included content (creep models, items, doodads, terrain) was available as a set of modular editor components. You didn’t have to “add Liberty campaign to your data sources” or “create an actor to represent your unit so he’s not a bubble”. If you wanted Mannoroth in your map, you click a dropdown that says Campaign and put Mannoroth in it. Being a professional at the Warcraft III World Editor was signified by the knowledge of which option to click on to get rid of, “Warning: This map is still using the name ‘Just another Warcraft III map’ in the Map Description dialog.” A third grader could do it.
That’s why I was encouraging the idea of making new campaign missions. Not because I believe that the WoW story-line will make a better or more engaging RTS than the Warcraft 3 storyline. It probably won’t. Maybe this Reforge of the game could retcon the story even further if it makes it more fun. But, because the developers chose to use a derivative product of the old Warcraft 3 engine, they will have to fight the system to introduce things that are not modular components like Doodads and Items and Campaign Units. And hopefully they won’t fight the system – so that all of these big, epic walls and statues in Stratholme Reforged will be doodads available to any custom map experience that anyone designs. Honestly, it would fit what I was hoping for if they added a Zangarmarsh tileset, terrain, and doodads, and then never used it for anything and left it for the community. However, in practice Blizzard is smarter than this and does not waste their effort without utilizing it. So, I’m hopeful that if they can make new campaign content that is acceptable to the fan base, they will force themselves to innovate new components to be readily available to the World Editor.
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All the reasons you just gave is why they said during the introduction of Warcraft 3 in BlizzCon they were calling it a reforge not remastered. They have redone some of the maps and some of the lore to match with the current state of Azeroth in world Warcraft. Aside from that the events should remain the same.
It even says on the Blizzard shop’s description this: “It is a remake in the truest sense”, so yes, we should not be expecting a remaster (like SCR, which was just a paint job over the original) but this is indeed a remake, which means that it’s rebuilt from the ground up.
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It should of course be as close a possible to the original but it should also try to reinvent alot of things. It is time to move forward, the people working on this project is a passionate and competent crew. And also if you want exactly the same game, just keep playing the original wc3. It wouldnt be a point in making a reforged version if everything stayed exactly the same. Try to keep an open mind and be happy that they actually decided to do this. ![:slight_smile:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I hope they dont delete the easter eggs. Im fine with some changes in the maps, but im not sure about a total remodelation. Still in alpha so, we must wait haha
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You hit the nail on the head with that post. So many things in WoW were done purely for creating content, and multitudes of compromises had to be made for feasibility, so much that more often than not, the narrative took a back seat.
Why impose the consequences of those restrictions upon Warcraft 3? The game itself proves that it’s a great format for storytelling, and that should be embraced and taken advantage of, not hamstrung from the get-go. Furthermore, it’s unfair to assume that by itself, Warcraft 3 has no intrinsic value, and should be changed to fit whatever bigger picture exists today. Those are the footsteps of misplaced enthusiasm and recklessness, not passion and care.
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It seems like the keywords that underlie your statement is “If they can make new campaign content that is acceptable to the fan base.”
If they’re going to copy WoW lore and paste it into Wc3, a lot of people are going to have a lot of problems with it. WoW’s maps were built for the Horde vs Alliance feud, and honestly the two-faction system really doesn’t make any sense / work with the overarching lore.
Why are the Forsaken allied with Orcs? (They’re undead Elves, they hate the Orcs as much as they hate the Forest Trolls.) Why did the Alliance kick out the Blood Elves / how are there still Blood Elves left that aren’t with Kael?
These and so many more lore-related problems stem from the basis that WoW was built on. I’m not saying that Warcraft 3’s campaign needs to stay EXACTLY the same in every way, but it comes across as just lazy if you’re simply importing the nonsensical WoW lore and bulldozing over the actual original content.
TL;DR - As was said by Swan, I want to play Warcraft 3 Reforged, not WoW in an RTS form. (There’s a reason people don’t play WoW in the first place.)
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I don’t think you guys quite get it. There is no WoW lore to copy to WC3. WC3 still has its own story, nothing’s gonna change that. It’s just the little details and quite frankly, just some minor changes here and there that have been changed a bit to be consistent with the overall story. It’s not like it’s suddenly gonna tell a totally different story… Really only WoW lore that changes WC3 story is the Burning Crusade, and that really did only favors. The WC3’s version of Outland and Draenei and the Lost Ones was really just a mess and all over the place. Otherwise the changes are going to be like that the Sunwell is on an island, not in Silvermoon. Winterspring has snow. Sunken Ruins have a different kind of tileset and there might be Nightborne. That kind of changes. It’s not like there is suddenly no Arthas ![:sweat_smile:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/sweat_smile.png?v=6" ":sweat_smile:")
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I also think the campaign should be reforged to stick with the current Warcraft geography and should created a new experience to old players doing so.
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Maybe they could do both? Keeping the Maps almost exactly the same as original should be as simple as adding the new textures and models into the missions, right? The developers can make the new maps they want to and just put an option in to select original maps or new maps (similar to choosing new/old voices and graphics).
Even if they don’t keep the same maps, I think a lot of the purists will just create the original maps as custom maps.