A fair comparison of the Beta and the demo

General Discussion
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xhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdfzxaV7D4c

Demo lovers I feel are going to hate this thread. But this is what I observed:

Reforged beta has better textures on models. (this includes characters, buildings…and yes terrain. (look at the peasant soldier shot and pause it. The beta has a much rougher steel, while the new one looks shinier but that does not mean it is worse, the actual texture painting on the model is better. The easiest way to see this is to compare the shields of the two, and look at the difference in the wood texture of the shield, and the texture painting on the steel.)

Models:
All models are the same. Yes even the trees. The only differences in the new Beta is mainly texture changes, and I would argue the texture painting (as I stated before) is better in beta than in the demo.

Particle effects:
Particle effects look better in Beta than in demo. Looking specifically at the smoke, it’s easy to see in the demo it was a place holder: it’s thicker and it’s better animated in the beta. I suspect the same will be true of all other particles.

Lighting:
Lighting looks slightly better in the demo, though it’s mostly just similar to a blue ish grayed filter, so I have no idea if it is the actual lighting engine that was changed (though I speculate is wasin’t, and no I don’t believe the demo was in a different engine with how similar everything looks)

Texture of environment:
1.Grass variance looks better in the demo, but the overall texture quality of the grass in the beta is better tiled and looks much higher quality when singled out together with the beta.
2. Ground texture is undoubtedly better in the Beta, it’s higher contrast and more detailed. This includes ground texture and tiling for the cities. (colour use…that’s another thing…and is also discussed in this thread)

Animation:

  1. Trees had animation in the original Demo that is missing, and that I would like to be returned by launch.

UI:

  1. UI in the demo was better.

Colour use:
I’m conflicted. I like the demo’s colour style more, but I understand why they changed it so much for the Beta. It’s hard to see units as they blend in so well into the environment in the demo. I can understand why people complained about it.

What I still think needs/Could be improved in reforged:

  1. Water colour, and contrast (to me right now, it’s to dark to the rest of the colour pallette)
  2. Grass variance. It’s obvious to me (as a 3D creator) that the texture quality of the grass is better in Beta, however it needs more variance like in the demo to truly start to look great.
  3. I need that new UI XD
  4. Better lighting on portraits.

extra: I think adding that animation swirl to the trees would be a nice touch, I don’t understand why Blizzard removed it. Hopefully it does come back at launch.

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Heyy, im a “demo lover” and instead of “hating this thread” I insta liked it, while of course subjective, its a well written analysis.

I agree in some aspects, and not so much in others.

My main gripe is still this comparison screenshot, where the one on top, from 2018 version, has much better: colors, ground textures, tree models, lightning and shadows (edit: and the UI!):

Xhttps://preview.redd.it/hqvqe9dqk7141.png?auto=webp&s=1140129543a46b1eb135a6ea3099ad18d4f00f0c

Same with the culling demo. When I play the beta my overall feeling is that it looks like that fan-made attempt at an hd version of w3.

Not terrible, but not much better than a fan made hd mod.

The graphics on the culling demo, gameplay trailer on website, and the screenshot comparison I posted really make me think about a Reforged hd version, which was what sold the game for me, and as it seems, for others.

4 Likes
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Thank you for reading and replying MeGa :slight_smile:
I understand where you are coming from, I just felt there weren’t any fair comparisons to the actual changes.

I still think they are quite similar. I don’t actually believe many things changed on models, I still believe the textures are better in the beta (not the colours, the main textures and their texture painting) Lighting I can understand why people would say is much better, and I also understand why people would say the colour balance is better.

I believe hower, overall most things are actually quite improved from the demo. I think if they changed the lighting, and colour balance to close to what it was, I actually really think it would look absolutely fantastic. (As I stated, I really like the colour balance in the Demo. I just don’t know how they can balance that with units in game, as I also find it hard to differentiate units as quickly as currently.)

Thank you for you awesome reply. If you would like to add anything, I would be happy to listen.

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I am just upset with no cinematic remakes of cutscenes.

I feel people are upset over the wrong thing.

Better Grass, Trees, and Lighting in the Demo are small potatoes compared to the Cutscenes being scrapped.

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well…I do have a thread that explains that most of that was a misunderstanding. But unfortunately I can’t confirm it to you either.

All I know is, from numerous interviews is that: it won’t be like the culling no, but it won’t be like classic either.

It will have:
“Cinematic animations” by characters
“camera cutting”
“Camera movements”
“New lighting”
“New particles”

SO what’s different then? hell if I know.

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Sadly I don’t think it will be anything like Starcraft 2’s In-Game Cutscenes:

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Haha, no I don’t either. Sorry.

But I don’t even think the culling was on this level…

I would say to obviously set your expectations low though. Sadly, as much as I’d like to have awesome cut-scenes like those, I unfortunately would have to say they are probably 99% chance not happening.

Though, that does at least not mean that it will be the classic cut-scenes, which I think is still a plus, new camer angles new acting from characters ETC, is can still be really cool.

I don’t think what Blizzard did was a good thing, I loved the campaign, and would love to see some new cutscenes like those in warcraft style.

But unfortunately, I just…don’t see it happening. I think they’ll be closer to the culling than most people think. But I highly doubt with what Blizzard has said that it will look like those awesome cut-scenes.

Sorry man…

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You mean the cutscenes WILL be like the Culling Demo?

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Hmmm…maybe read the thread:

Blizzard is vague, I’m saying:
“I’m expecting something in between the culling and the original cutscenes”

what that means…dude I have no idea. If Blizzard actually said something, anything about this I would be able to tell you. All I can tell you is:

I’ve linked the important interviews of people in that thread, and of what I can gather it will not be the classic cut-scenes. They are moving away from the culling, but on paper it does not sound like it…

So my verdict? hell if I know…all I know is were not getting classic cut-scenes, and were not getting culling…and my brain hurts again lol

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Well, at my lowest expectations, I am expecting the cutscenes to be on the level of Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War 1:

Probably with better animation though.

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ahahahahahah XD ok no I’m expecting a lot better than this XD

more like this?
xhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkA0E0aHT_g

Because technically, all of what is said is in this type of cutscene, and it’s still cool, just not epic. But technically: new lighting, new animations, new camera movements and techniques.

Okay, but also with a bit better animation XD

they do say, characters will walk instead of run, they will point and gesture…so I mean…again man it hurts my brain with how vague blizzard is.

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This video gave me some srs anxiety.
It’s like being in the mind of a maniac

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Why? You’ve never played or seen Dawn of War 1? Or anything Warhammer?

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More like because it sounds like one voice actor voiced everyone but bad

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Well your graphical analysis is like the best written feedback about graphics Ive seen, and I would need to open many videos and make a detailed comparison to give an answer at your level xD.

So I more or less think my opinion about the graphics mostly matches your in depth analysys.

While I drop that screenshot comparison an just name whats different among both, saying 2018 looks better, you distinguish, terrain wise, the coloring, the ground textures and the grass.

Aaand reading and checking carefully, yes, probably its like that, ground / grass textures may be more detailed, being mostly a problem of the coloring on grass.

But also a problem here, with a legendary game being remade, is we have many different kind of consumers with different expectations.

I for example, own every warcraft since release, iirc I played the hell out of Warcraft 1 demo before it released (or before I bought it).

Having played all warcraft games a lot, a big incentive to replay it now was playing it with, imo, current graphics (culling demo & current gameplay trailer).

The graphics in the beta, even if as per your analysis has improvents and only minor steps back graphical wise, dont visually satisfy me as much as I expected from looking 2018 footage.

And then we have people that dont care in the slightest / much / a little about graphics, because they are already playing w3 classic, and obviously conflict with those of us who care.

But here, I must state something: if there was a 2019 trailer with beta graphics, official footage with them, etc, I would only be an “annoying fly” complaining about something that cant be changed.

But current official trailer still has 2018 graphics, so im not asking them to revert a decision, change their mind, or deliver what I want;

Im asking them to deliver what they still advertise, or at least communicate, so I can take whats called “an informed decision of a customer” instead of insisting with my “feeeback” till release day, where nobody knows, 4 days before, how will the game finally look.

Ps: I just realized I cant explain myself much better than this, so I think this is more or less my final statement on this haha.

(Very happy to reply your well reasoned posts ofc, but I think im mostly done on the other dozen of threads where im having similar conversations :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: )

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Well, its is the case that a handful of voice actors voiced a lot of characters.

But they do have very good vocal ranges. One guy voiced these 2 characters:

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that’s pretty impressive.

I was also impressed with the warcraft 3 footman/worker/dwarf sharpshooter voice actor. That man, damn.

And tara strong. Though she does kid stories. I never knew ben 10 was a girl until I saw the interview where…well she revealed her ben voice.

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These examples are better but the video you linked earlier is strange for me. The atmosphere, lines and the sounds. Don’t get me wrong, I like it for this reason. I will look for getting a copy since I haven’t played it yet

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XD no problem man. Thank you for reading and at least looking at the footage from a critical perspective. Sorry man XD I’m studying film, about to do my honours, I go overboard with these type of things.

But I really did enjoy reading your posts, and I really can see you have some points :slight_smile: I really just hope the final release is a good one. Warcraft 3 means a lot to me, and I’m actually quite happy with what I’ve gotten so far, but if no one else does at the end of the day it won’t matter.

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No, thats just your opinion, as valuable as anybody else.

No, in fact less valuable, because you have the balls of telling others they are wrong and that your opinion is above others.

Anyway, you are not really selling your point with this kind of kiddy argumentations.