4vs4 mmr and race rule bnet

General Discussion
1

Hope I could help u guy get a better experience bei play 4vs4 solo

Race ruler
Hum Orc Ud Ne
Hum T0 counter a bit counter a bit counter a bit counter
Orc T0 normal normal counter counter
Ud T1 a bit counter bad normal counter
Ne T∞ normal bad bad normal
Yes hum counter hum hard if u know how to play

MMR rule
Hum Best Race to exp, u shall harras them
6k+ u can trust him
5k-6k If they are not harassed, they will have some impact mid/late game
4k-5k They may leave game when they get harrased, they need huge long time to be useful in game
4k- pure feeder, may only build footman/rifle
Orc Best Race to lame, good anti harras
6k+ u can trust them
5k-6k Most of them use fs hh, also can u bm, you can let them in charge of aa(Antiair)
4k-5k May use lost skill bm bat (but they may use bm creeping), or random hero+hh, may use bat.
4k- most of them cant use aa, lots of afk tauren user, cant upgrade borrow
UD Air counter hum (except tank), timing is important, ud cant deal with mass air (more than 2-3 player use air against u）
6k+ Very rare, u can trust them
5k-6k most of them use dk fiend to frostdragon or dl air, a bit cl, have impact mid game
4k-5k most of them use dk fiend to frostdragon, but slow exp, get lv3 huge late, other of them get random hero or use nec.
4k- free kill 5x peon, always have no Ziggurat near goldmine, or passive player, only cl user could help mid game, and late game suck
Ne worth Race, total trash unit+worth aa, worth race against rush too, impossible to carry game solo, just type gg against mass gyro, bat, gargoyle, hipporider
6k+ is there any 6k+ ne in bn except me? Played random ud against tyloronline at, he use ne, we have leaver, game is huge ez, btw, my ne also suck hard, but my kog early is top one
5k-6k hippo, chim, dry bear, golem, thats all ne could do, hippo is timing unit, suck against gyro bat, chim without aa, so u need help them aa, but at least these player used not to be early leave and they are good at make mass exp.
4k-5k Most of them use hippo, or ac to chim. U need help them aa.
4k- Some straight chim user without excessive units, afk in base until they have mass chim. Other player even worth.

If someone have question about 4vs4, free ask here, I always own 1vs4 or against 4at. :rofl:

1 Like
2

Hi Lutz, interesting post.

I play battlenet 4v4, low mmr but in reality I am not a bad player at all - I have played wc3 for many years - in my games I am usually among the highest scores at the end of the game, it is true that I usually play with low players, although I for example play with you sometimes.

I used to be aggressive, I would expand fast, get lvl 3 or near and attack whoever was in front of me, usually their expansion. I’m not bad micro and I normally used to win my 1v1, but then it became a 1-2 or 1-3 or 1-4 with tps!!!. Of course I know that then it is time to retreat to allow your allies to do damage on the other side of the map with superiority, but this is not w3c, this is battlenet, my allies do not attack, they are passive, just creep or nothing, my allies do not take advantage what I am creating.

The only thing that happened was that I suffered casualties and then the enemies that had gathered came directly to attack me and eliminated my expansion while my allies often didn’t even tp.

Now I am a player who refuses to attack early or middle. I focus on expansion, achieving great economy, tech and going to 80 supply to be important in the game.

I don’t like playing like this, by not attacking my enemy is free to do what he wants and I have serious problems with the techers, the enemy can expand without problems. For example, 1 elf noob can easily expand in front of me without towers and make mass chims and then come and do a lot of damage to me. With hu, elf or ud maybe I can deal with that since I do a strong anti air blindly but with orc I have a lot of problems dealing with mass air since I usually hh casters.

If I don’t attack I don’t do damage, I don’t scout, the mass air greedy players can crush me even by surprise. All this makes me a very bad player right now. Also, normally no one on my team makes anti air, normally I win games in which I have to fight 1-2 1-3 with my anti air vs air. And sometimes it’s impossible to win because my allies contribute too little.

But at least by becoming a passive autistic player, if no one comes and kills me, I can get to a situation where I have expansion, Shredder, 80 supply, 3 heroes lvl maybe 4-5, 2-3, 1, scrolls, invuls and be able to be relevant in the game.

But since I don’t attack, sometimes good players like you get angry with me and sometimes the enemy comes and crushes my economy. Losing the initiative and only defending yourself is bad.

Sorry for my long post and regards.

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According to him, anyone like you or me is a “game ruiner.” If he sees you in a game he will likely flame you and try to get you to leave, because that’s easier than actually playing out the match. He fully admits to being toxic as well.

Further, the numbers he is referencing are W3C ratings, not battle.net ratings. Which there’s a pretty big difference.

2 Likes
4

Hmm that’s not my experience with 1 guy named lutz on bnet. I have won and lost with him on bnet without problems. I remember that not long ago we lost together and he only complained at the end about lack of help 1-4, I couldn’t do more since our two allies contributed zero and I was an orc and I suffered the problem of not being able to be decisive with my hh casters and I didn’t want to switch to bats. If I had been another race, I would almost certainly have been able to support Lutz’s air more and we would have won.

Also Jack I think he is referring to mmr bnet, it seems to me at least.

5

Probably not the same person. Feel free to read the other thread. He’s been extremely hostile with me on this board, calling me a “game ruiner” even though we’ve never played a game together.

He’s not. He plays on W3C, in the other thread he references features on W3C (i.e. player reporting, where he brags about getting reported and never being punished)

1 Like
6

can get in damn erorr damn theng how im can get in thes check the email huh damn it can get in to

7

You need to watch the mmr of your teammates, if they all 4k-, you need to be ready for 1vs4. All of them wont have any idea how to win, u shall tell them what to do, but lots of them wont listen, they just answer u like our captain jack: dont talk, u toxic player.

There is some timing draft, I used to make t2 70-80 unit push if I use hum against orc/ud/ne, if I dont get lamed, at this timing they wont have more than 50unit, I could simple 1vs2 at this timing, but, if 3or 4more, I have to tp and may lose some units, these slow movement ground units is not possible to gain advantages in the late stage like air unit, such as cheating TP. Same thing happened when I use hipporider, also a timing unit, very bad late game.
My team shall push at that time, coz all the enemy are really busy, before push I sure ping, if my team all afk and the enemy stop my push with 2-3 tps, I gonna be angry, coz timing pass.

Btw u really think orc weak aa and ne strong aa? Bat magic are strongest aa support, bat counter gyro, Hippogryph, gargoyle, bloodlust +healward is best buff to air unit like frostdragon, chim. In a 4vs4 more than 200unit teamfight, healward can negate damage from 50-100 population, it just broken.
Image if u play ne or ud, and the enemy use gyro+air(frostdragen, chim, gryph) or bat,magic+air, what can u do? If your team is 0, guess nothing to do except type gg, even u have a lv5 panda lv3 tk or play dl gargoyle. But if u are hum or orc, u can try with mass bat, tank, gyro, Hawk…and remember these unit could push base ez, so u can also split push. But gatgoyle, Hippogryph cant do much to base.

I have to say ne is worth race for carry game, sometime I play ne side against another ne, the quantity of hippogryph is important for ne vs ne, (Hippo own deer with range and kog rape ac）,image other team help ne with some bat or gyro, what can u do? Guess nothing. It’s even hard for you to use other unit, thats ne.

I think every one if he could understand how this game work, simple get 6k if he has a good internet. dc is the most reason I cant get 7k. (Suck german internet dc close every 20-30 games, and dc=-50mmr)

I gonna write something later how people shall do with leaver, I like low mmr leaver my side, they are really key for higher mmr.

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No one cares.

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9

I understand.

I think my problems with orc come from my limitations as player. I know the strength of the bats but with orc I use control 1: Heroes and hh, control 2: shaman or docs, 1 kodo and extra hh. So I’m in late game and I see that my team is going to face mass griphs or mass chims or mass wirms or mass gargs or very gyros, I see that either I get bats from several rax or we are lost.

Well I’m simply not good enough to handle 3 controls effectively.

My current solution is to put the bats in control 2 and have the casters follow my hero. It’s funny because every time I tp I often forget the casters on the map. It is a disaster. It’s just too much to handle and beyond my capabilities.

On the other hand, for example, with NE everything is simple and effective for me. Number 1:heroes-chims, Number 2:hypos. I attack move with my hypos and they kill everything (with updates and very scrolls). I only focus and focus with 3-5 chims. I only fear tanks and mass bats, in that case you need your teammates to do some damn thing.

On the other hand, with orcs it is a nightmare. Many times the typical NE with hyporiders own me only for mobility and easy focus. AOE does terrible damage to hh and I can’t focus effectively in big battles, only attack move. My TC in front and blocked dies and dies, no matter how much you heal him, or when the invul ends.

If I don’t casters, it’s much easier, but many times bloodlust wins the game alone, much more so at low levels.

Also many times the bats are not enough, with a control of 12 bats I think i can only kill 3 wirms armor 3. And I can face in late a greedy player with expansion that comes with 6 or 7 wirms.

And many times I simply switch to bats too late and it’s over.

10

You really should be ignoring Lutz. They are a toxic member of the community who advocates bad behavior to players they view as lower skill and don’t think there is anything wrong with that in any way whatsoever. They also aren’t as skilled or worth listening to as they suggest, because if they have to bully people into leaving, that tells me their skill isn’t good enough to stand on its own.

Frankly, even W3C’s system is defective if he’s getting matched with people he calls “game ruiners” in the first place. There shouldn’t be such wide spreads of MMRs in a single match in the first place.

2 Likes
11

Jack, what interests me is learning something to improve my game, and in this thread I have already learned a few things by reading Lutz’s posts. He is a competent player, better than me, that’s what’s important to me.

12

That’s good. But I have to question the wisdom of their advice given their behavior and clear disdain for people they view as inferior. It calls the quality of their advice into question when they apparently have to resort to toxic behavior to win games.

Because of this I would strongly advise you to corroborate what you’re learning with other experts. I’m not pretending to be one of them- I’m definitely not an expert. But I would be more inclined to listen to someone who doesn’t incorporate unsportsmanlike conduct into their strategy.

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Bat is good against gyro, Hippogryph, gargoyle, its not good for frostdragon,gryph…unless you got 3+ exp. Wyvern do better against frostdragon, gryph, but wyvern is just a t2 unit with huge low hp, if u want to man fight 7x frostdragon, hh+magic is easiest way, but ud wont man fight u.
I suggest u another way to play orc, my full lame draft, super strong aa.
Hero fs, build 4hh, fe and go t2, lv2 up far sight, use it to exp, if its human exp, go straight and focus worker, else creep lv3, keep use far sight and search a exp to push, (include let the enemy cancel exp) buy boot and teleport, use hh+wolf swap some unit like ft, hh, gouhl, ac.
Buy shedder if u can, else build 4 more peon. After t2, build 3x be, upgrade borrow.
At that time, u have 1 exp, 3x be, u have a strong wyvern timing. Stay T2, use solo fs. Human used to have max 1 tower exp and main，with 3 wyvern u could simple push them, and soon gonne be 6 wyvern, they wont have chance to upgrade tower any more, unless 1-2 tp from enemy, u just need take care about fiend and bat, other unit wont have enough speed to hit wyvern.
Against ud or ne, u could mass bat to kill their exp, ud and ne both have trash tower, just use fs or wolf to tank a bit, bat could push all their tower super fast.
Against bat, i suggest some raider, one net= free kill bat, 180gold for 160gold bat, but sometimes u cant control it well, so up lv1 armor (so bat cant 1hit wyvern) and build some bat is a alternatives way. (But bat for bat is only 160for 160, raider for bat is 0 for 160)
U can use 1: fs+wolf+wyvern, 2:bat
But still better if u can try 1: fs 2: wyvern 3:bat 4:raider, fs shall not go together with wyvern, he could solo lame 1 exp.
Units target:
fs: tank with wolf, use wolf kill worker, ac,hh etc, heal potion Transporter.
wyvern: worker, hum tower, borrow and orc tower(no uprade), aa unit if u get a advantage
bat: main, ud ne tower, gyro, Hippogryph, gargoyle, bat
raider: tank against tower. all building, net along unit(upgrade robbing as soon as possible)
With this draft, the enemy gonna have less exp, and all of your unit is aa, u won’t have to worry about being defeated by air.

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Thx Lutz, I’m going to try this, although my wiverns die too quickly, I’ve seen players go 0-3 armor with wiverns and get results.

I don’t have too much confidence in fighting with hh casters vs mass air, but I know that good players do it, maybe my micro fails, I now adding blade third hero with orb to help that. I think they can do hard focus too easily while i cant and keeping the heroes alive with so much firepower is complicated.

I know that the problem is that you have to kill these people before they have 80 or 100 supply heavy air, but this is random team, not arranged team xD

15

Damn Meilin, i miss your at so much 21 0 after met me 3times now its 22-2?
Btw, is huahua a girl?

16

my warcraft3 reforge is a account is banned damn thed theng offim gonna fine do som theng out

17

Any reason they do that to u? U often teamkill?

18

sorry my warcraft3 reforge damn account is banned damn theng

19

wow he is pro gamer
y not play 1on1?

20

im hate you all for any players im hate bllizard entertaiment gamemer now
im no more play any more and hate all of you