1.36.2.21146 PTR 3 Patch Notes

WC3 team needs to stop listening to the casters, as the game will DIE because of them.
They are biased, cause their fanbase is hating on Happy and UD.

Not true. I am an ethnic Russian like Happy, I live in the same country as him. I “rooted” for him when he began to become a champion and win high-prestige tournaments in 2019, but I don’t hate him, and at the same time I think the balance that is now in patch 1.36.1 is unfair. The undead have more advantages in dealing damage to a single target and healing their heroes than all other races. It’s especially difficult for people in machaps with the undead.

I want Happy to reach the finals of major tournaments and defeat his opponents from among the strongest Koreans, Chinese and Europeans, but not due to the fact that his undead race has more advantages than other races, but in conditions where the races are approximately equivalent to each other friend on balance. So far this equal balance does not exist.

That interest in the game grew and new players came to the game, it is necessary that in the Bo5 final there would be an intrigue in which it is unclear and unknown who will win, and not the fairly frequent dominance of one race and one player over everyone.

No one denies that Happy is excellent at playing in the “everyone against everyone” format, including for other races, and defeating top players for other races too. But this does not negate the fact that the undead still have the most advantages in inflicting instant magical damage on one enemy hero, and the most advantages in healing their heroes and their army.

You cannot triple Ghoul Frenzy. Troll Berserker upgrade takes just 40 seconds, and cost just 75 gold and 175 lumber, Ghoul Frenzy cost 100/150 and research is 45 seconds.

It’s already worst than Troll Berserker.
Ghouls are also low HP 340, low damage units, 12-14 damage, and 15 - 20. With upgrades not share other units one.

Troll Berserkers 475 HP, 23 - 28, 26 - 42 damage. And they are ranged units, which is million time better than melee with just 340 HP …

The only unit that deserve nerf on here is the Troll Berserker. Orc also have the easiest and best upgrades of all race.
And since last buffs/nerfs, best base defense by far, without even needing to do build anything extra, just supply burrows.

Pro players are just not on Happy level, not even close.
UD needs buffs, not nerfs.

2 Likes

Я в шоке что еще кто-то смеет ныть на удов, которых из-за Хеппи загнали на самое дно.
Вот некоторые мои наблюдения при 7500 игр за нежить и рейтинге 1800mmr

  1. Нежить единственная раса у которой нет пипетки маны в магазе, хотя ВСЕ её герои полностью зависят от маны и нет ни одного танка типа ДХ или БМ

  2. Нежить единственная раса у которой на Т1 нет антивоздух юнитов

  3. Нежить единственная раса которая никак не может защитить своих акколитов и заодно единственная раса у которой потеря даже одного акколита может полностью заруинить игру

  4. Нежить единственная раса у которой нет диспела на Т2

  5. Нежить единственная раса которой ОБЯЗАТЕЛЕН Т3 для лейтгейма и единственная кто без Т3 орбы вообще ничего не может.
    При этом Т3 юниты нежити являются самыми мусорными в сравнении (Абом, Вирм, Дестр).

  6. Нежить единственная раса которая не может строить здание где угодно на карте для защиты от бестрейда, хотя нежить как раз чаще всего страдает от этой тактики.

Почему для диспела мне нужен Т2, Т3, здание, тележка, грейд на дестров, платный подъем тележки и 5 лимита, в то время как эльф имеет тот же диспел бесплатно с 1й секунды?

Почему у эльфа мейн передвигается, может где угодно строиться, может сам крипить точку, строить виспов, защищать виспов в шахте, БЕСПЛАТНО чинить эту шахту и дает еще 10 лимита при этом стоить 340г, а я получаю за 225 абсолютно бесполезное здание которые убивается с дропа за 7 секунд которому еще и добавили 10сек для постройки?

Почему я один должен не иметь антивоздуха на Т1 и диспела на Т2? Почему орк может издеваться на удом на протяжении первых 5 минут игры в тупую делая Т2 даже без барака и СХ на Т2 который хексит абсолютно все и просто не дает уду выйти с базы. В итоге орк имеет контроль карты, быстрый Т2, быстрых виверн и возможность хараса, в то время как уд НЕ имеет ничего до Т3.

Почему на больше половине текущего маппула эльф благодаря бакару и хум благодаря ментам могут добежать героями 2го уровня до моего натурала быстрее чем я его закрипил? Т.е. хум и эльф могут закрипить свой натурал, поставить базу и быть на моем натурале, а я даже 2й уровень не успею получить? Это баланс?

Люди которые пишут эти патчи похоже сами в игру никогда не играли.
Пожалуйста, поиграйте удами игр 50-100 и посмотрите как с вас буду издеваться перебафаный ДХ, масс виверны и танки.
Может после этого вас дойдет что слушать ушастых нытиков не стоит.
Эльфы просто не умеют играть, если лучший эльф Мун за первых 3 минуты игры дважды попадает в окружение гулями демоном, то это не гули виноваты и это не повод нерфить френзи или еще раз бафать Дх.

В связи с этим предложения следующие (только по нежити)

  1. Усилить защиту аколитов и/ или шахты. Чтобы шахта защищала хотя бы часть акколитов по принципу рудника у эльфа.
    Второй вариант сделать возможность дозаказа акколитов во время Т2 и Т3, это позволит избежать отмены Т2 и Т3 из-за потери одного акколита (больше никакая раса так не страдает из-за потери ОДНОГО рабочего).

  2. Если вы никак не хотите решать проблему отсутствия антивоздуха на Т1, то можно хотя бы добавить на старт игры +1 акколита, чтобы было 4 акколита + гуля. Это позволит уду быстрее жать Т2 и хоть как-то компенсировать эту невозможность атаковать воздух.

  3. Мне нравится идея посоха диспела на Т2, но кажется что цена слишком велика в 200г за 3 заряда. Думаю логичнее сделать 2 заряда за 125г.

  4. Нужно что-то делать с Т3 юнитами нежити. Они однозначно хуже чем у других рас. Снижение цены на спелы для юнитов которых никто не делает НИКАК не изменят ситуацию.
    Можно снизить цену и занимаемый лимит для вирма или же улучшить абома (добавить ему канибализм или вонь без грейда (как у коней), чтобы ими хоть как-то можно было играть.

P.S.
Я не претендую на истину и просто высказываю свое мнение исходя из своего опыта игры.

3 Likes

Learn how to quote and answer properly, as i have hard time understanding what is a quote and what is not.

So i can answer to you only about the UD and the so call burst damage, aka the opportunity to do instant damage with magic on a single target.

Firstly this is completely false. HU burst damage is the highest in the game, and miles better than UD’s one. Next time check your facts before talking nonsenses.
And if we add Blood Mage Banish the difference is huge. On top of that Holy Light is instant, and MK Storm Bolt is also a huge stun/disable.
On top of that MK has 2 HUGE DAMAGE abilities, Clap - 150 big aoe DMG and also 310 damage 5 seconds stun Storm Bolt.
And a Bash, that also do DMG.

When it comes to Elf, should i even mention Warden?
Her damage alone outdone the Coil/Nova damage.

At level 3 Coil does 300 damage to units(not heroes, as Heroes receive Reduced Spell Damage by 30%).
Nova at Lvl 3 Does 250.
This is 550 damage total.

MK Stun + Clap alone does 460 damage. With Holy Light - 760.
With Banish at LVL 1 that damage goes to 1261.6 damage.
As Banish gives 66% amplification at all levels.

Warden alone Fan of Knives which has huge AOE, 475 to be correct and 7 unit cap, does 190 damage peer target.
Shadow Strike 225 damage, and additionally 45 per 3 seconds for 15 seconds.
Aka 5 pulses. 225 more.
This is 450 damage alone + 190 that is also a huge AOE one = 640 total damage.

Orc have a huge AOE damage for Shockwave + Chain.
BM alone can outdamage both Lich and DK with his critical Strikes alone, add Wind Walk, and the picture is terrible.

On top of that UD heroes when it comes to physical damage is the worst of the bunch.
Garbage attack animation, garbage attack speed, garbage armor every single one of them.
Their damage is so so, but attack animation is garbage.
The way Happy make Lich good is by T3 Orb and stacking tons of damage items, which every single race have ways to do.

Every single races have strength and weaknesses. UD units are the worst of all race by far. The only thing they have is their burst damage.
Orcs and Elf have a huge Attack Speed killing machine in DH and BM, that deals insane amount of damage and can tank almost all army.

And every single race have healing options, and Orc has the best one, aka Shadow Hunter Healing Wave that heals multiple units.

UD is the worst race by far.
And this is also the reason why so little people play it, it’s also the hardest, as require the most micro.

If it was the easiest it would be the most played.

Nice try, but you have no clue what you are talking.

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Yeah you are clearly a hater, and have no clue about the game. This game is not only about single target damage, something which i also debunked to be a lie, that UD has the highest burst, a big fat lie, that expose you.

You also have no clue that Orc have multiple disables, UD has none useful, so they need the burst to finish units, as Orc for example can just ensnare and kill, Stomp and kill, ahd Hex and kill. Purge and kill, Lightning Orb and kill, and million other ways as well.

UD doesn’t have that privileges.

Also UD has been constantly nerfed the last 3 years or so, specifically based on Happy.
And they haven’t received a single good buff.
Yeah you are Happy hater, doesn’t matter which country you origin from.

Also if you had any clue you would have known that they changed Show Cup rules back in the day, because of Happy run, and they literally have 10-15 Cups with reverse race and Random, and Happy won every single one of them.

If he was just UD OP, every single player would have been UD, and not being the least representee race in the history in top 50 MMR 2200+, amongst top and pro players as well.

Just for example and don’t dodge that one:

Happy with barely playing any other race than UD, not practicing too much, beat Moon multiple time in Elf mirror. Beat Lawliet in Elf mirror. Beat Colorful in Elf mirror. Beat both Sok, TH000 and Fortitude in HU mirror, and destroyed Focus 2-0 in Orc mirror.
Also beat Lyn with Orc vs UD. Lyn played UD, and Happy played Orc.

On top of that no one managed to beat Happy when the other PRO players were playing UD and he was UD as well.

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Mate we already established youre a sub 5k bnet player. Why would you argue for balance at all. Even if they gave ghouls twice the HP and damage you’d still be mediocre at best. Trying to influence the game’s balance like this is ridiculous. This goes for both you and adventurier. Both Undead and Human are doing tremendously good this patch already. Diluting a feedback thread with nonsense and 50 page tangents isnt useful at all.

Dude, stop being silly. Just like you write about maximum magic damage, you can write about any nonsense, and it’s all hypothetical. Let’s debunk this: elves’ workers can dispel, so they’re the strongest race in the game, or let’s say humans’ workers can fight, so they’re the strongest race in the game. You can spout this nonsense forever, but you need to understand that it’s nonsense, and you can’t draw conclusions from it.

Recently, there was a game between Happy and an orc (can’t remember the nick) on TM. The orc had a 50 limit, Happy had 80 or 100, and Happy kept attacking several times but couldn’t do anything. With his strongest magical damage, he couldn’t kill a unit. Then he won by building 7 expands.

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You are the one crying all over the place and wants UD to be nerfed, so who is the 5k. sub bnet player? Don’t accuse others in stuff you are suffering.

And where did i suggest that Ghouls HP needs to be double. As far as balancing goes, yeah you are balancing exactly based on units, heroes, strategy potential for race, strength, weaknesses and so on, not based on 1 or 2 player performance, and not when there is a clear HUGE gap in the skills between this 1-2 or 5 players.

This is why so many people strategy fans don’t take Warcraft 3 seriously, because the balance has always been garbage.

UD was essentially dead race for the majority of the game existent. It comes to live after it was finally being addressed the core issue that should have been given to the race from the very beginning.

And now they are sending it back there, because fanboys can’t get over that Happy is just so much better, which is obvious just by watching his gameplay and everyone else. Is like amateur and pro competing in real sport.

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The game was against Fly, and show how much better Happy is compare to the rest. Orc have a free expand in their shop, yet UD that has the worst expand potential outplay you by so much expansion just shows there is level to this.

Happy needed like 30+ supply in multiple games against Lyn as well.
And Blizard wants to nerf UD against Orc, and buffs Orc overall with this OP broken Tauren at T2 … :smiley:

How about gives Elfs Mountain Giants at Tier 2, and HU Gripho and Knights at T2.
And give UD Destros and Frost Wyrm at T2.

And yeah Back2Warcraft and Grubby are the ones to be blamed, as they are heavily biased.

Don’t forget the Immolation meta, this suggestion was done by Neo and Remo. They wanted Immolation buffed, and even they got it totally wrong they didn’t want to admit they were wrong and didn’t wanted DH to be nerfed, even though he packet 25+k. damage in short time games.

All they want is to have a competition so they can earn money with streaming, and listen to their followers who are just casuals who have no clue about the game.
Money talks and they listen to the money obviously.
That’s why they constantly want UD nerfed.

Yet 120 is losing almost every single game. Labyrinth literally refuse to play, and there is no other UDs.

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I couldnt care less about UD getting nerfed, or any other race. I think the game is in a good state already and slightly buffing and nerfing some stuff will definitely keep the game a bit more fresh. There is no ‘lordlosh’ on w3champions so its safe to say you havent even touched the w3champions ladder. Considering your statements have been pretty hypocrite about other people touching balance and the lack of moderation here its very much needed people call you out on your nonsense

Maybe cause i don’t play with that nickname lol ? I can show you my physical game copy. I’m almost 35 and i have this game from the time it comes to the market. Unlike most of the crybabies on here. Back in the day we were just playing, not crying about nerf this or that.
And yeah i’m 100% fine with someone who is completely unbiased balanced the game, but not what they are doing now, listening to 2 biased casters, which as i already proved money talks, and ex Orc player, who when he was a PRO never wanted to admit that Orc vs UD is a free win for Orc, and done it only when he retire.
And money talks with him as well, as he is streamer and obviously biased.

The company that do the balance should be the one and only one that takes this decision and not listen to this casters/ex players.
As everyone have a motive.

2 Likes

Then post from the account that you play on so you can at least have some credibility. If you provide feedback in a negative tone nobody is receptive to it regardless of what you say. Blizzard is not going to do 20-40 buffs to human like Adventurier suggested and neither is it going to nerf all 3 other races to the ground because of the wall of text you post with a side of hypocrisy

Man, What you said is so well. I would also like to point out one thing: UD players have the smallest numbers in any segment of the ladder. So people can discuss how to weaken UD without restraint.

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Firstly this is completely false. HU burst damage is the highest in the game, and miles better than UD’s one. Next time check your facts before talking nonsenses.

Not true. The first undead hero is most often a dead knight, the second a lich. The knight deals 100/200/300 damage per Death Coil, the lich adds another 150-250 damage to the frost nova.
The human race has the first hero, an archmage, who has no instant damage abilities at all. He can only spray blizzard, but it is not instant damage. They cannot be dealt a lot of damage in a couple of seconds like the face of death and frost nova. In addition, from under the blizzard it is easy to simply step aside. People’s second hero is most often MK, but for MK only the storm bolt is an ability capable of inflicting damage equal to the face of death. Bash is not an instant damage because it works relatively rarely, and it cannot be directed at the target like a frost nova at the very moment when the target, for example, has the least health. This turns out to be 2 instant damage abilities for the undead versus one for the human race. Therefore, the undead have more opportunities to deal instant damage to a single target, and therefore it is easier for them to kill enemy heroes than for everyone else.
Don’t write stupid things.

And if we add Blood Mage Banish the difference is huge.

People cannot add a blood mage to the archmage and MK because people almost always take a paladin as the third hero because they need to have at least some healing abilities for the first two heroes. If you do not take the paladin as the third hero, then the archmage and MK will die much more often, and in most cases they will lose.

Stop talking nonsense, MK never has enough mana to use these two abilities to kill undead heroes. There is only one MK, and he has about 300 mana, and the undead have 2 heroes who have about 600 mana, so the ability of the undead to cause instant damage is always almost twice as much as that of humans. With their mana reserve of 600 units, the undead can kill simply twice as many enemy heroes as humans.
Therefore, the ability of the undead to kill enemy heroes is always greater than that of humans.

When it comes to Elf, should I even mention Warden?
Her damage alone outdone the Coil/Nova damage.

When elves play for Warden, they most often play only one Warden without hiring a second hero, so that Warden would quickly get level 6 and get the ultimate. It turns out that one Warden has only 300 mana, and two undead heroes have 600 mana, so the ability of the undead to kill elf heroes is always greater.

MK Stun + Clap alone does 460 damage. With Holy Light - 760.

People most often take MK and the archmage as the first hero. Palladin is taken as the third hero when most often 70-80% of the game is completed. Palladin does not have time to build up to the level that would cause magical damage comparable to undead heroes. It turns out that in these 70-80% of the game, the undead can inflict almost twice as much magical damage as human heroes (one MK), and by the time the paladin comes out as the third hero, the archmage and MK most often already manage to die many times because they have less ability to inflict instant magical damage damage.
Do not talk nonsense.

Warden alone Fan of Knives which has huge AOE, 475 to be correct and 7 unit cap, does 190 damage peer target.
Shadow Strike 225 damage, and additionally 45 per 3 seconds for 15 seconds.

When elves play through Warden, they most often do not recruit a second hero, so it turns out that Warden only has 300 mana, and two undead heroes have 600 mana. Undead have almost twice the ability to deal instant magical damage.

Orc have a huge AOE damage for Shockwave + Chain.
BM alone can outdamage both Lich and DK with his critical Strikes alone, add Wind Walk, and the picture is terrible.

We are not talking about area damage, but about damage to ONE target (the hero). If the hero is lost, then it is much harder for the player to fight; if he died several times, then the game is lost. In the ability to cause instant damage to ONE target in the form of a hero, the undead are superior to everyone, which is why they are stronger than orcs.
A critical hit often doesn’t work exactly when the player needs it. We are talking about the possibility of inflicting targeted damage exactly at the moment the player needs, and not at a random one. Here the undead are still stronger than the orcs.

On top of that UD heroes when it comes to physical damage is the worst of the bunch

This is only until the undead orb appeared, reducing armor. After it appears, the ability of the entire army of undead to inflict large physical damage on one target is equal to the orcs, because the undead inflict more damage on one target by reducing its armor with an orb.

Every single races have strength and weaknesses. UD units are the worst of all race by far. The only thing they have is their burst damage.

No. I just refuted all your arguments above, and proved why the undead have more ability to inflict instant magical damage on a target than all other races. This leads to the conclusion that the undead are the most powerful race.

And every single race have healing options, and Orc has the best one, aka Shadow Hunter Healing Wave that heals multiple units.

And it still lags behind the undead’s ability to heal ONE target.
Healing Wave heals for 130/250/300 health, and Death Coil heals for 200/400/600 health. And in addition to the face of death, the heroes are healed by the aura of the death knight, and the “contract with death”. Therefore, the undead still have more possibilities for treating one target (hero) than orcs.

Orcs and Elf have a huge Attack Speed killing machine in DH and BM, that deals insane amount of damage and can tank almost all army.

BM and DH are heroes with agility and low health. If in a machup against the undead they do not receive rune bracers that reduce magic damage, then most often they lose to the undead because they cannot withstand the large magical damage inflicted by the undead.

Nice try, but you have no clue what you are talking.

I know that this is a good try, because above you can see that I smashed and destroyed all your arguments, and proved that the ability of the undead to inflict instant magical damage and heal their heroes is always higher than that of all other races. And you couldn’t refute it.
I understand more about the game than all of you here combined.

Great to see next balancing patch! I can see that Blizzard wants to give something fresh and exciting to HUMAN players. In my opinion, polymorph is a wrong direction to accomplish that.

There is an EXOTIC and ELECTRIFYING strategy in the HUMAN arsenal called PALADIN RIFLE.

Some pro players even tried on in tournaments and with small changes it can be playable on some maps to make both player and viewer experience more ELEVATED.

I am a pala rifle player myself, and I prepared some suggestions how to make that strategy playable without making the standard human too strong. Here they are:
Human

  • Sundering Blades now requires an upgrade again
  • Paladin’s base damage increased from 24-34 to 27-37
  • Blood Mage Siphon Mana drain rate increased from 15/25/40 to 15/30/45
  • Dragonhawk Rider Cloud upgrade is now available at Tier 2
  • Gryphon Rider Storm Hammers lumber cost reduced from 225 to 125
  • Mortar Team Fragmentation Shards upgrade now also increases damage dealt to heavy armor

Neutral

  • Backpack requirement(race specific shop) removed for all races
  • Goblin Laboratory Reveal Duration increased from 6s to 12s
  • Goblin Laboratory Reveal Area of Effect increased from 900 to 1000
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What an Ape

5 Likes

I’m done with you. The moment you try to comes with stuff out of your ***, and instead comes with numbers, just like i did, and prove you have no idea what you are talking i understand this discussion is useless.

You are lying through your teeth or you have no idea what you are talking.
You first say that UD has the best/highest burst damage, then when proven wrong start changing the narrative, exactly what crybabies used to do.

And HU can play whatever hero they wanna play. This is up to the player, educate yourself.
Also a lot of HU plays MK first, and it’s 100% viable options against any race. Just like they can play MK/Pala or MK/BM/Pala or AM/MK/Pala.
Any combination they choose, HU burst > UD burst all day long. It’s also cheaper and better.
And even without taking account of Bash, which is miles better than any of the Lich or DK 3rd choice of skill, you still have Clap and Storm Bolt. No UD heroes have 2x Damaging skill, let alone 3.

And no UD doesn’t have more opportunity, it’s all up to the players how well they play, etc.

If you were any good, you would have known this. I’m done with you, wasting my time.
Just get gud in the game.

1 Like

And even without taking account of Bash, which is miles better than any of the Lich or DK 3rd choice of skill

We were talking about INSTANT damage to one target. Bash, as well as the critical hit of the blade master, often does not work when the player needs it. Specifically at the moment when the enemy hero has little health left and needs to be finished off.
Bash and critical strike cannot be aimed at the target and cause guaranteed damage to it at the same second when the player needs it, but death face and frost nova can be done. Therefore, the ability of the undead to instantly deal damage to one target is always greater.

You can see that I smashed and destroyed all your arguments, and proved that the ability of the undead to inflict instant magical damage and heal their heroes is always higher than that of all other races. And you couldn’t refute it.
I understand more about the game than all of you here combined.

The moment you try to comes with stuff out of your ***, and instead comes with numbers, just like i did, and prove you have no idea what you are talking i understand this discussion is useless.

I gave you the figures above which refuted your arguments. Why are you lying? Here are the quotes above

And every single race have healing options, and Orc has the best one, aka Shadow Hunter Healing Wave that heals multiple units.

And it still lags behind the undead’s ability to heal ONE target.
Healing Wave heals for 130/250/300 health, and Death Coil heals for 200/400/600 health. And in addition to the face of death, the heroes are healed by the aura of the death knight, and the “contract with death”. Therefore, the undead still have more possibilities for treating one target (hero) than orcs.

You first say that UD has the best/highest burst damage, then when proven wrong start changing the narrative, exactly what crybabies used to do.

Show me where exactly I said about best/highest burst damage?

I talked about instant magic damage on one target, because it is this damage that allows you to kill enemy heroes more often. You’re lying again.

Also a lot of HU plays MK first, and it’s 100% viable options against any race.

Not against the undead because both heroes of the undead (the dead knight and the lich) can inflict instant magical damage on the same target. And for people, only one MK can do this. The Archmage cannot deal that kind of damage.
In addition, MK and the archmage cannot be treated with an aura, the face of death, and a contract with death like a DK and a lich.
You can take Mk and a paladin, but then people will still have fewer opportunities to deal instant magical damage because there will be no mana regeneration from the archmage’s aura. MK and the paladin will have nothing to restore mana with, and obsidian statues will restore mana to a dead knight and lich. It turns out that the undead still deal more magical damage throughout the game than humans.
You are lying again, and again you are talking some kind of nonsense.

If you were any good, you would have known this. I’m done with you, wasting my time.

I’m also done with you, I refuted all your arguments and proved that the undead, more than all races, have the ability to inflict instant magical damage on a single target. And you couldn’t refute it.
Don’t try to argue with someone who is smarter than you and understands the game more than you.