So the human race is all about some unimportant and minor changes, while other races are strange and ridiculous changes, which is what is called a balance change? Hahah
3 Likes
Thank you for the patch. I have some feedback:
- The current UD mirror feels boring, with Destroyer overpowering everything else. I suggest reverting Banshee’s antimagic to being undispellable and setting the barriers back to 300.
- DemonHunter seems overly dominant, especially among lower MMR players. It feels like a tier 1 siege tank with exceptionally high DPS. I propose reverting the Immolation DPS to (10-15-20) and the activation cost back to 20.
- The nerf to knights should benefit UD against Human. This is a positive adjustment.
- Moving Tauren to T2 is a good decision, but perhaps we should reduce its DPS without the Pulverize upgrade accordingly. For example, we could remove the reduced Pulverize and revert its building time to 44 seconds.
5 Likes
still no nerf to copters and polymorph affecting heros LOL. and ofc orc gets buffed every patch cuz blizzard loves grubby
1 Like
Negation wand needs to be at tier1 so that ud will be immune for all cc & summons from the very beginning of the game 
This adjustment on human undead match-up seems rather drastic. Banshee’s dominance in the late game of HVU is noticeable, and Siege Tank is currently the only viable counter. However, buffing Curse and Cripple to this extent would render Tanks obsolete and potentially make Banshee too powerful. Perhaps only allowing Cripple to target mechanical units but not Curse could balance things. Additionally, reducing the barrier of the anti-magic shield could be an adjustment to consider.
4 Likes
no please no lol
An update was pushed to live last week which fixed performance issues and some other things. Could you please elaborate on that with some patch notes?
1 Like
Only 3 maps getting rotated in 3s? Are you guys alright? Its been years. Rotate the lot, just take from w3c map pool like youve been doing with the rest…
id say new abilities are way outside the scope for anything that could come in a reforged patch. But if I were to do something, I’d delete her owl or w/e it is and add some kind of buff or debuff/light CC in its place.
Tauren at T2, just no. Whether it’s due to the cost of the unit, damage, or HP, there’s no reason this unit should be in t2. It would have to be entirely reworked which defeats the purpose of it.
4 Likes
I like the overall feeling of this patch.
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Frost Wyrm is used less often than Mountain Giants in 1v1 (It’s popular in 4v4 because of area damage). I think it needs a serious buff to be viable in 1v1.
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Polymorphing heroes for 3 seconds is insanity. This cannot be serious. With AM it’s easy to keep full mana. A 2-food unit can control a hero for 6 seconds. What?
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It has been so long and PotM’s searing arrows mana cost is finally reduced! It’s 20 years too late for this game but it’s happening!
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The issue with necromancer is that it starts with a useless skill (summoning skeletons). I get that you want UD players to be able to counter tanks through mages, but necromancer is just a bad unit with a useless first skill.
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Wand of Negation for UD looks like a good idea. UD was the only race that needs tier 3 plus an upgrade for dispel.
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Tier 2 Tauren? I like this!
Let’s revisit some of the rarely used units:
Human: Sorceress
Orc: Tauren, Demolisher
UD: Necromancer, Frost Wyrm, Crypt Lord, Meat Weagon
NE:PotM, Glaive Thrower, Hippogryph Rider
I think the patch is trying to address some issues and it is a good thing.
4 Likes
Tauren are a beefy and powerful unit and have no business being in t2. If they’re t2 then you may as well eliminate t3 entirely. Some of these other changes do make more sense. but this is all kinds of ??? .
Polymorph on heroes will create the same toxic playstyle as taloms WITH slow on top. Can not let that go through whatsoever.
Tauren on T2 is stupid, its a clear T3 unit, just rework it if you have to make it viable. This is going to create the same toxic meta as pumping lores and bears at T2 to get a free win once you hit T3
Mountain giants have been at 6 food before and were insanely overtuned because of it. Please dont let this change go through.
Wand of negation will not change any UD going fast T3 to get destroyers and frenzy. Itll just make them even better at getting there. Bad change
4 Likes
Kaivax is just a community rep, he is not the one making these decisions.
Frankly I don’t think NE needs much help at all. I guess MGs costing less food is okay and buffing potm is definitely needed although she needs more than just a slight damage boost tbh
1 Like
I appreciate that balance patches are still made, but I’d really like more emphasis on the platform. We still suffer from quite an abundance of noise on BNet itself. For example, since the last server maintenance, people can get endlessly stuck in queue, there are many join bugs with a red error message, and minor connection instability will cause a boot from the game. The EU server seems bugged, and many games overall are played with latency that really doesn’t meet contemporary market standards (by a long shot).
I’m typically not a fan of massive balance changes. People don’t really ask for this. Give us some stability and make balance changes very incrementally. That said, here are some thoughts on the most painstaking issues as an end user of this game
Human:
The thing I’d love to see changed most about HU is actually not top-level: nerf pala rifle. Holy crap, that strat is the new POTM mass hunts, on steroids. We don’t see this a lot at top-level play, but it is a true bane for a massive amount of the player pool. It simply is way too easy to execute. Especially with how strong siphon mana supports this. This has to go. Even in solo games, I find pala quite obnoxious. I get his support role as a 3rd hero, but with divine shield, it feels a bit too much: you can’t take out this guy but you can’t take out anything else with this guy either. He turns the game into a “dodge a fight and raid economy” style of game.
Orc:
seems in a fairly fine state overall. I think bloodlust HH is a bit overwhelming, especially with tri-hero support. TC is arguably a bit too sturdy as a 3rd hero when supported by a level 3 SH already. TC is one of those heroes where its secondary spell is also really good, and even hero levels (such as 4) grant a very solid power spike.
Elf:
The difficult case in the option menu. I think elf is strong and is so for the opposite reason of HU. Not because elf is inherently insanely good, but because they are pretty easy to play. Moonwells, bears, orbs play into this. I do not have a good solution for this, but the “bear a-move” is towards a meme-able level of simplicity. Here it is that I don’t think it is too good per se, but because of how easy it is, it aids elf players in obtaining relatively good win rates. Somehow it needs to be “nerfed”, although I’d argue “adjust” may suit better. I guess some nerfs are in order, but I also feel that nerfing easily runs into over-nerfing.
Undead:
I feel they are too linear. Not sure how to change that either. Their early games always feel like I need to build a railroad while the train is already rolling. They do not have great firepower at this stage and feel very contained. The pressure to just even get level two can be high depending on the map. However, this really starts changing gears to nearly flip a switch when the second hero is added and specifically when the orb is added. Now it feels the opposite, and when playing UD, it feels like “holy crap, I blinked and now I lost serious value in my army”. Last but arguably not least: CL can be a bit much. Impale is just a tad too good, even at lower levels. I’d like too see something as an unit cap to this. Currently in nullifies entire armies, even at level 1. The follow up damage UD can produce because of this ability is ridiculous. DL also give a bit of this vibe but at least he needs more hero levels to unlock potency.
I’d saw some others are fan of bigger changes, but to me personally I’d argue to aim for stability. Make more minor changes. Sundering blades back to being an upgrade seems like a fair example. Polymorph on heroes seems very debatable, and thus inherently a bit too far for seamless patchwork.
Honestly, as a player who occasionally plays it looks interesting. Not sure why people hate polymorph change so much, especially when I didn’t see it casted even once in all of my few hundreds of games on w3champions. I always had a feeling it’s not a very good spell due to the fact dispel is pretty accessible by everyone.
Some potential changes I’d like to see:
Blood mage: Flame Strike cast delay 0.9 → 0.8 (it was already buffed but people usually don’t use it anyway)
Warden: Shadow Strike mana cost from 75 → 65 (warden feels slightly worse than other heroes, after moonwells nerfs it’s probably not too much of a deal to buff it like this)
Shadow Hunter: Big bad voodoo mana cost from 150 → 100 (Grubby recently mentioned that SH usually is focused anyway and even when you use this ulti it usually doesn’t give you more than other abilities for that very same mana cost)
Boneyard cost: 175/200 → 125/200
Frost Wyrms: 385 gold → 360 gold (they’re almost never used, mainly because of their cost inefficiency, although they may have their new niche with the Taurens at T2)
As a casual (~1550 w3champions undead), I’d say elves are the hardest race for me (~1250).
Polymorph, like Hex, denies xp / mana regen and with this change it could be chained. It’s an interesting idea, but when we considered this over four years ago that was the reasoning for not implementing. I think it’s worth trying though.
1 Like
The problem with polymorph is it essentially becomes Hex in mass late game. Even if you’re only talking .5seconds at higher level heroes, that’s massive interruption to micro. Pretty sure poly, like some other abilities, stops the last command given too. Easily abuseable if you’ve already got an advantage in the game. Then overpowered if you consider it in conjunction with say bolt timing.
It not being a good spell is because you’re talking 220 cost for units, and when you’re at that stage of the game dispel is almost certain, but that all changes for the reasons stated above - Hero Focusing.
When I think of Cryptlord first it’s biggest issue is probably no reliable source of regenerating. Maybe making an active component on his W (something like corpse consumption similar to cannibalize) would fix it? After all our beetle guy always was mentioning that he is about to consume the living and the dead.
Alternatively passive regeneration or pretty much anything like that could also work.
1 Like