1.36.2.21146 PTR 3 Patch Notes

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
336

It’s May 2nd, and no PTR patch? Oh no, I was holding up hopes…

If the venerable intern tending to this abandoned beacon of a game is hearing my voice, I would suggest thee…

Making the PotM shoot on the move when Searing Arrows are active! Or turn it into a cooldown-based ability with this function. It’s like Irithel from Mobile Legends. Or Tracer from HotS. Would be super unique, a new mechanic!

And maybe experiment with ults at lvl 5 (creeping to lvl 4) - would be a cataclysmic change, and would only require tweaking the numbers. Do it, bLizzard! Just a PTR change, please. Get the ball rolling! We don’t have much time before AI makes everything obsolete, and we retreat to our vistas of pleasure.

1 Like
337

Yes, that’s actually a good idea. Making ultimates available at level 5. Undead ultimates are weak, hence the “Happy” nerf. Other races will become more diverse, and the game may speed up. Currently, getting an ultimate is usually the end of the game. But if you make it a little earlier, there will be new metas. You can try it out on the PTR for a week.

338

return hh 1 damage but reduce range from 550 to 450!

1 Like
339

What about Magic Steal being a cooldown ability like snare? Not mana dependent. So you can not steal infinite, but also breakers will be more playable without am 1st. Maybe the same with control magic, but with a larger cooldown.

This not only would make breakers playable without am, but also makes healing wards and bloodlust (and maybe some other spell) a little more playable vs spell breakers.

However, picking a fair cooldown could be tricky.

340

All I’m saying is the implication of this change is that Tauren aren’t powerful enough to be a late game unit and thus we need to downgrade them to T2. So i’m saying why do this when you can just make them a better reward for hitting T3?

Unless the reason for this change is that they think orcs are at their weakest before T3. But I’m not really sure that’s the case.

341

Why remove the Scroll of Healing from the tomb of relics? You disincentivize gargoyle and ghoul play in general. Imo not a good idea.

4 Likes
342

I think that is part of the idea. Having gargoyles is as healthy as having tanks. Is ok to have some from time to time (or as a complementary unit), but mass gargoyles should not be a viable strategy if the opponent sees it coming.

There is a general consensus that ghouls are one of the strongest units in the game, cause of their sharp trimmings on tier 3. Not having unlimited heal scrolls seems a fair change.

1 Like
343

Please remove shadow meld from assassin creep and any other creep such as murlocs also.

Please also fix this bug: If you add a maximum limit to number of guard towers in custom map, then when you upgrade scout towers to guards towers some guard towers will have bugged icon and wrong tooltip text when upgrade finished.

344

This is a good try, but this modification is still not enough to bring Tauren to the normal game.

Tauren serves more as cannon fodder than as a unit to deal damage to the enemy. Despite having abilities like Pulverize, it often lacks opportunities to deal damage due to being a melee unit.
Therefore, in the Orc’s Tier 3 technology, there are two technologies to ensure its combat effectiveness after taking damage: Healing Ward and the Ancestral Spirit. Orcs can use Healing Ward to restore Tauren’s health or kill low-health Tauren and then resurrect them.

Placing the Tauren in the direction of Tier 2 is good try, as it means the Orcs don’t need to invest a lot of time and money to obtain a cannon fodder unit. However, during the Orc’s Tier 2 phase, there is no assistance from Healing Ward or Ancestral Spirit for the Tauren, leading to the Tauren being in a state where it takes damage but cannot recover health, and therefore cannot effectively fulfill its role as cannon fodder.

To address this issue, it is also necessary to reduce the cost of Tauren. Currently priced at 280 gold and 80 lumber, it is suggested to reduce the cost to 250 gold and 60 lumber. More aggressively, it could even be set to 240 gold and 40 lumber, which is much cheaper than the Troll Headhunter or Raider in the same food.
For a unit at such a low cost, even without assistance from Healing Ward or Ancestral Spirit, the Orcs can still accept it dying as cannon fodder after enduring a large amount of damage when there is Tier 2 phase.

Also Pulverize damage need to be increase. The reason is exactly the same to the Searing Arrow damage increasing.

These values are all designed based on the skill level of early players. In the early stages of Warcraft3, when everyone’s skill level is not high, it’s easy to gain an advantage in battles using these simple damage skills without special effects.
However, as players’ skill levels improve now, skills with greater flexibility become more advantageous in battles. Therefore, these damage skills without special effects are generally undervalued and need to be strengthened to pose a threat.

So please increase the values of these damage skills.
Searing Arrow damage can be changed to 15/30/45, and Pulverize damage can be increased from 30/60 to 45/90.

I’m pretty sure this numerical increase won’t make them too overpowered.
Players now have enough skills to deal with the Priestess’s stable damage without suddenness.
Players won’t be helpless against this kind of damage from Pulverize , as everyone knows they can rely on debuff and magic damage to counter Tauren. 90 damage can compensate for the current situation where Tauren severely lack threat to the enemy.

345

Hi @Kaivax,

If you want to make this game balanced, please consider adding more little changes.

Here are valuable changes to incorporate:

NE
They are receiving too many buffs and almost no nerfs. As we know it is by far the easiest race to play.
Archers -5 gold (to prevent mass T1)
Revert moonwell regeneration buff and leave it as it is now!
Nerf Alchemist -2 intelligence, as we know it is way too abused by NE players almost exclusively.

UD
Current patch notes seem very good.
I would decrease acolyte movement speed to adjust with other races like peons!
Crypt Lord makes way too many summons.
Either decrease it intelligence by -2 or -2 summons on level 1. Level 2 and 3 remain unchanged.

Hum
Current patch notes seem very good.
Polymorph should last on heroes max 1 sec
Defend of footmen is way too strong.
By nerfing head hunters from orc race it should be also nerfed.
Increasing Upgrade Time from 45 sec to 90 sec will seem fair.

ORC
Again, this race receive almost nerfs which is really not fair.
BM has been greatly nerfed. How about giving him back +2 agility?
Taurens available at T2 should have been added long time ago.
How about increasing their movement speed by +10 or +15%? They are so slow currently.

Items drop
Please re-work item drops like it was back in 2009.
Claws +6 +9 and +12 droping more often.

We want good old Warcraft 3 not Lord of the rings like ToD said once!

Aura drops +50% chance.

Awaiting PTR version 3!

B.R.

-NWS

346

only orc player can suggest to buff bm and claws drop …
Зolymorph does not need an effect on heroes. Much more needed lower mana cost and bigger cast range. Now its 500, vs 800 Hex range

347

HAHA there IS a race receiving too many buffs and almost no nerfs , because for that race nerf always reverted while buff always perserved.
It is crystal clear that the race is not NE or you just Cosing DH.

And its simply not logical to claim a race with lowest average HP is easy. Perhaps in your parallel world NE can use massive MGs to win Happy like tanks with a 90% winrate. That’s sounds really easiest, please buff MG and take this META to our world. Thanks :slight_smile:

1 Like
348

And its simply not logical to claim a race with lowest average HP is easy

NE is the race with lowest apm for beginners, you only mass t1, even pro admitted and are doing it.
You are probably a 1200 mmr NE player who casually watches streams, your opinion matters like nobody else :slight_smile:

in your parallel world

Dude do me a favor, please quit smoking crack it’s really high time xD

349

Unfortunately indeed as your opinion.
And more unfortunately, this the only true part in your reply.

The elf community generally has no interest to troll other race and they are the slient majority. If you have read the past patch logs, you will discover the new tactics of elf always nerfed in a relatively short time while the tactics to defeat elf survive long enough and some of them used in the live patch. Why? Top elf player does not speak for the race like TOD and Grubby. For the past 20 years, when elf race nerfed they change their tactics and once again nerfed. This loop had happend so many times and the log of patch notes speak for me with a solid comformation.

Fortunately, we have logs and we know what is true and what is not.
In every patch there is always a relatively easy versus for every race. while obviously there is no “far the easiest race” to play.

Well this maybe so hard for an APM parallel boy to understood.
Lets see what will be changed in the next PTR.

350

please little boy, do us a second favor, buy a dictionary :slight_smile:

The elf community generally has no interest to troll other race and they are the slient
majority.

Ahahah. Good one. You made my day.

NE easiest race to play, just mass T1, and with the insane POTM buff we will see this mass T1 even more :frowning:

Solution = nerf NE mass T1 production +5 sec or or better +10 gold gold each T1 unit.
They nerfed HH so to make it fair also NE T1 units should be nerfed.
Thanks to this other races, especially orc will have more time to counter NE T1 abuse.

I play the game longer than you, probably you were not even born when the game dropped little boy xD

Cheers!

-NWS

351

And in case this suggestion does get entertained, I just don’t see any downsides. It would immensely expand the game… Without adding anything new. (Everyone knows the ultimates, it’s just that they are never ever used in 1v1.)

Sure, they will have to be monitored, but again, the fear of the complications seems to be overblown. Even Grubby (who opposes this change, iirc) in his ultimates tier list admitted that only a few of them are tier S (and thus potentially broken).
zhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHjSxHWAWo

I. Inferno, Metamorphosis, StormEarth&Fire - these would have to be nerfed without question. My ideas would be:

  1. Inferno - make the Infernal immune to healing with the Death Coil (it was a change to magic immunity with TFT in 2003).
  2. Meta - make it give less health?
  3. Panda Pals - reduce the duration for 40 sec to at least 30 sec.

II. Charm and Transmute - increase the cooldown if need be.

III. The same would apply to Mass Teleport - again, if it feels too strong.

The rest of the ultimates don’t really seem game-breaking. Even level 5 is not that common to get for the 2nd/3d hero, so, let’s say, the Phoenix would still only be seen in Blood Mage 1st strats - which would be an improvement over Blood Mage solo strats (which effectively don’t exist).

1 Like
352

I can’t believe I have failed to mention this, my old idea about the Undead tier 3 shop item row.

  1. Staff of Reanimation - a campaign item already in the game which produces a single unit case of Animate Dead (temporary). Without charges, like the Staves of Preservation/Sanctuary?

Then I could write down a few more thoughts from a few years back (they’re much crazier, so feel free to ignore).

  1. Human tier 3 item - a 1-charge mass banish cast. Would synergise with Human’s AoE damage spells (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Thunder Clap).
    2.1. Now that I think of it, mass Banish could be a feature for a level 3 Banish spell? Blood Mage never reaches level 5 anyway.
  2. Delete the Crow Form, change it to the Hippogryph Form - make the Druid of the Talon rideable by the Archer (wtf).
  3. Add some crazy way for the Necromancers to make Abominations - either a long cast time, or maybe a three corpse requirement. Would effectively use mana to make the unit as opposed to gold (a unique mechanic).

But overall, there are three ways to expand WC3 at large - without adding new races, units or heroes (which would all just feel wrong).

  1. Ultimates at lvl 5 (creeping to lvl 4).
  2. New tavern heroes.
  3. New [race shop] items.

And as regards the neutral heroes, I once did make up a few hero concepts myself! Focusing on Agility and Intelligence to make up for the abundance of Strength heroes in the tavern, and to use up the available unit models (which aren’t used for creeps).
zhttps://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/17xnxfv/my_9th_tavern_hero_concepts_akama_the_elder_sage/

353

Night Elf is already much stronger than Human for ordinary players: demon hunter just chases AM to kill from the begin. The current NE players cannot get good grade in competition just because the pro NE players are WEAK: None of them even dominates the mirror race.
Currently Kaho has the highest ELO in NE, but he often lose mirror to Moon or Lawileit.
At least all other three races have some dominating players now: Happy for UD, Lyn for Orc, and Fortitute in Hum. They almost never lose in mirror. It is a good criteria to test players’ micro+macro in mirror games.

It would be time for you to buff NE only when there comes some dominating NE player, but he can still not get good grade in matches (like Human players in the past two years). Otherwise it makes no sense to buff this already very strong race.

1 Like
354

Yes this true in 1.36.1 because NE was overnerfed.
They are weak because they are not defend their race when new patch is comming. They pay hard price for their inability to influence the balance change. They are weak and this is a result of wrong balance change.

Kaho is the best NE player in micro control, however NvN is a highly dynamic match. In same level versus, a player with higher APM lose to a player with more experience if the Sophisticated player stands in the right direction of such dynamic. Since there is no solid way to win elf mirror there will never be a constant winner in NvN as long as the overnerf to elf preserved.

You have pointed out other 3 races have a clearly top1 player. The reason is also clear that there are solid way to win H O U mirror if a player is better in micro control. For hum the solid way is Rifleman & Priest spellbreaker mirror, For orc its Grunt Raider and Spirit Walker or mass HH, for undead T1 unit+DES.

So where is the solid elf tactics? They were all nerfed and logged in the past patchnotes. You may say Dru of Claw and Dryad, that is the Kaho’s army. Exactly as you have pointed out, he lose mirror with better micro.

Please keep calm when elf is partially recover from the endless overnerf abyss. Don’t worry NE will never be buffed continuously like HUM, and if that “bug” ever happened you can still cry out loudly and NE will be nerfed into the abyss again in the next patch as the old day always.

After all, the pro NE players are WEAK to show their opinion in balance change. They deserved to be nerfed because they did not have an intermixture metal face like some race.

355

From version 1.30, we can see that the Human race only has a very small weakening, and then the enhancements in other aspects are very huge, while the other races are basically equal in terms of enhancement and weakening. Alright, Blizzard, we know your goal. The Human race is either the champion or the strongest, and the other three races are garbage, especially the Undead. So far, they have become scattered skeletons and are useless, at least for ordinary players