This game got patched in the start of December and it’s been over a month now where the game has been in an uplayable state where custom games don’t work and ladder is a hot mess. I don’t understand why you would push this broken patch onto your players. It should have stayed in PTR until things worked. Not to be pushed on the players like they’re some sort of lab rats for Reforged. The level of distrust among your consumers is already bad enough at the moment. Patch after patch you break things in WC3. You keep doing this to the game that is going to get remastered in a year? You are alienating the consumers that will buy Reforged, how is that for a strategy? I really feel like an apology would be in place at this point, because your playerbase is mad.
Agree, they should fix the broken mess they did and release future patches only after they’re 100% sure are not buggy.
December patch was needed for Reforged players to get access to the game.
Instead of complaining the game is buggy, please report specific bugs and describe easy to recreate test cases for it. Unless a bug can be reproduced the developers stand little chance of fixing it.
It’s not just about bugs, features are terrible too.
i buy the game some days ago and i am dissapoiment, my friends willo not buy the game ![:frowning:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
Maybe they try patching so hard bcuz they prepare war3 classic for the beta reforged to be able to try it online togheter with those who have just classic war3.
They promised a beta (pre-alpha) in early 2019 and they run out of time,aprill is the deadend for the promised beta
We players don’t get paid to test their product, why should we test their product for them when that is what testers are for? What you’re saying makes no sense. Releasing 1.30 in it’s current state is not acceptable in any form or manner because it’s downright gamebreaking. Not to mention whats the point of reporting bugs when they never fix them?
I can recall bugs that still haven’t been fixed:
-Special effects stop working or showing up ingame all of a sudden, reinstalling is the only solution. I’ve seen mention of this bug from over 2+ years ago.
-Desyncs are still a thing. 1 month after.
-Sound are still bugged. 3+ months after.
Why report bugs when they dont fix them? Why patch the game when it’s not broken.
Why play the game when you know it’s broken?
That is a known graphic driver bug, not related to Warcraft III. The actual solution is to restart (not shutdown and power up due to that being hybrid shutdown since Windows 8) the PC so as to force the graphic drivers to reload and hence fix the bug.
Most common with Intel integrated graphics. The graphics API WC3 uses pre-dates Intel’s common graphic accelerator designs as such it is highly likely that there are driver bugs with the implementation of that API that no one cares about. This should not effect Reforged since Reforged will be using considerably more modern graphics APIs (modern shader pipelines from D3D11 as opposed to fixed function shader pipeline from D3D7 with some D3D8 additions).
The game was clearly very broken. It did not even run on Mac due to Apple dropping support for that instruction set it was built with.
I don’t know why you think it’s a “driver bug”, but can you please stop spreading that nonsense? Give me another example of a program in the whole wide world that has this “driver bug”, give me a break (or better, give some proof).
Neither does a restart fix the issue. A full driver reinstallation does it.
How on earth can you write code that actually messes the graphics driver unintentionally is beyond me. Truly unique code.
Further more, let’s assume for a moment it really is some old driver bug (that oddly happens on any actual gpu driver, and affects only Warcraft 3).
I don’t see how this changes the fact that there is a bug in Warcraft 3, where all attachment models stop rendering.
I thought a part of the reason these forums exist is to report bugs.
It’s obvious you don’t play Warcraft 3, same with many other Blizzard fanboys here, and indeed the Classic Team itself. None of you actually play the game. Why? Why do you keep posting endlessly on patches for a game you don’t play? Why do you keep posting these completely detached posts that don’t have any content other than copy pasted statements?
Of course, if you would have actually bothered opening the game and trying to play on Battle net in the past month, you would have realized that no, a “test case” is not needed. You would have known that most custom games desync immediately after loading the map. I guess to know that, you need to actually care about the game.
The game was broken. Indeed, the desyncing in itself existed forever, and it’s truly good news that it’s finally being fixed. This is not an excuse to keep applying patch after patch after patch, every one of them filled with new bugs that were obviously not tested properly, and indeed completely broke Battle net for over a month two times now.
We are customers, not beta testers. I have no idea what you think you are.
Emulator developers run into graphic driver bugs all the time. For example with some mobile devices emulator developers found that the implementation of Vulkan is failing to correctly flush the back buffer to a default value despite the same calls working correctly on NVidia, AMD and Intel drivers. The reason commercial games are generally not effected is that the developers report these bugs to the driver developers who fix them before their product releases. Hence the constant recommendation to update display drivers if a product or update is not working.
Here is an example describing a driver bug.
https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2018/08/01/dolphin-progress-report-july-2018/
And the appropriate quote.
The Vulkan backend has been broken on most phones since its addition to Dolphin. And it’s not because of anything in the Vulkan backend itself - it’s just driver bugs. While
**[stenzek](https://github.com/stenzek)**was hoping for a driver update to resolve the issue, it appears that won’t be happening any time soon. So he dug into the issue himself and found what Dolphin was doing to put the drivers into such a gnarly state. Eventually he found out that 32-bit floating point depth clears were broken on Adreno. This is rather problematic, as Dolphin needs every bit of that precision to accurately emulate some GameCube/Wii games.
Now obviously these bugs are different from what is happening with Warcraft III. However why in this case there is a bug manifesting in Warcraft III as missing special effect models and only after some unknown trigger no one knows. The cause almost certainly is the “do not care” state that legacy graphics APIs are at, and no developer runs into it to report it to be fixed because no one develops games targeting D3D7/8 API levels.
On Hive Workship half a dozen or so of people have confirmed that restarting their computer made special effects that were missing before suddenly appear in game.
Drivers are code themselves. Imperfect code as the article above shows. And yes Intel, AMD and NVidia are better than phone graphic solution drivers, but we all know the recent crashes and mess that was the first release versions of NVidia RTX card series compatible drivers…
We could be referring to different things. The issue I am referring to is when certain types of model effect do not draw on screen. Specifically it seems to be billboards or related features, which are used extensively with many spell effect models. The common symptoms are “model does not appear now but did yesterday” and such and has nothing to do with attachments as the special effects can be attached or even placed on the ground directly and they still would not appear.
If all attachment models attached to a unit stop being drawn then that is a Warcraft III bug. Reinstalling, restarting or anything of the like should not fix it in such case.
I am not denying that. That also has nothing to do with missing models and such?
That is interesting that you had a problem with Billboarding. My first thought, when talking about attachment bugs, is the old bug where Undead and Night Elf birth models are invisible and so the buildings cannot be clicked while under construction.
I always assumed it was a side effect of running a 32 bit game on a computer with a 64 bit clock. Since there is no explanation why a birth animation model wouldn’t show, I assumed it probably loaded an incorrect “time” value for its animation playback. Those attachments have special code to animate at a point in “time” on the MDL model timeline that corresponds to an offset since the unit was created. So the MDL timeline time is Current Millisecond Clock Time - Unit Spawn Time. I figured that one of these two, like Unit Spawn Time, was probably always using a 32 bit integer while the other was loading a 64 bit with an unsafe cast to 32 bit. So, sometimes (certain times of day, or many days at a time) the models wouldn’t show since the unsafe cast was to a 32 bit number and wrapped around so that Current Millisecond Clock Time was less than Unit Spawn Time and so our equation yielded a negative result until the truncated first 32 bits of the 64 bit clock got back to a positive number and stopped being broken.
I did not describe it very well, but that was always my best guess at the cause. It’s the kind of bug that nobody pays attention to.
Dr.supergood is a well known forum troll. He doesnt play the game, he doesnt understand how the game works and he just sits and spams peoples threads with dumb posts. The guy has way too much time on his hands.
SwankyOrc, expletive expletive expletive on you. I maintain a personal program called Matrix Eater for editing WarCraft III models. To open MPQ archives, I use the library written by DrSuperGood. To load BLP textures, I use the library written by DrSuperGood. Recently now to load the CASC archives from Patch 1.30, I use the new library also written recently by DrSuperGood. Although I did not publish it yet, my software is generally running well on his CASC library – on multiple operating systems that I have tested (Windows/Linux). Maybe to you he is a forum troll, but to me he is literally a big part of the reason my software can exist and be useful at all.
At the same time, I also borrowed lots of rendering code from Ghostwolf, who also is a big part of the reason my software can exist and be useful. So if those guys are arguing I’m not taking a side. Except for the one that gets the best software, which is generally both of their sides.
Is that really your proof? that there are bugs in graphics drivers? well gee, anyone who ever installed graphics drivers knows that. How is that relevant to Warcraft 3 or this thread?
The fact is that, much like the global cache that causes desyncs, this is a problem in Warcraft 3 that exists since ever (as far as I gather).
And by this I mean attachment models (such as NE and UD building attachments, as Retera mentioned, spells like Breath of Fire, and other examples I don’t remember off the top of my head) not rendering for no apparent reason, which for me was solved solely by reinstalling the drivers.
I don’t even need any proof from you, I don’t know why I even argued on some random driver bug that may or may not exist (still waiting on that proof though, not regurgitating the same things).
Point is, Warcraft 3 has a bug, and it should be fixed like any other bug.
The desyncing has nothing to do with missing models, that is correct. And yet, it’s clearly a part of this thread. A part to which you replied with a statement that could have come directly from a Blizzard employee and still be as hollow, and show how detached you are from Warcraft 3. Therefore I am not sure what the confusion is about.
The one thing I am not sure is why the models were mentioned in the same category as the desyncs that made the game practically unplayable online for over a month, since the attachment issue is far less important than all of the recent bugs if you ask me.
t.troll, DrSuperGood is a Hive moderator and has extensive knowledge on topics in which you are labeling him as a “troll” for.
That website is the source to all the problems in Warcraft 3. If you are a member of that website, you are a part of the problem. Also, the guy thinks that blackbars is widescreen and broken sound is a feature. The guy is an idiot.
Now I’m really curious about what you’re trying to say. I played WarCraft III as a world editor user from 2002 to 2010ish mostly only privately and with family. In 2008 I signed up for a Hive account to ask about a lighting issue, and around 2012ish I started to talk to people from the site more frequently.
Why is that site a part of the problem? Suppose the site disappeared so that “part of the problem” was gone. At that point, what exactly is better about WarCraft III in that future than how it is now?
Thinking about it there are two possible causes…
- There is a graphic driver bug causing the drivers to enter a persistent bugged state. Graphic API calls that once worked stop working correctly. The reason it still exists is because no one cares about >15 year old API calls in newer drivers. Reinstalling the graphic driver resets the driver state and hence fixes the problem.
- Warcraft III is doing something stupid and running into undefined API behaviour. Such API behaviour may produce different results depending on driver, with it working reliably on some drivers and hardware but eventually entering a bugged state and stopping working on others. This is a bug with Warcraft III because the driver developers do not need to care about the results of undefined behaviour as long as the results do not negatively effect system stability.
It can easily be either problem. The problem is most commonly reported on Intel integrated graphic accelerators. Intel has only become such a large player in graphic acceleration recently long after the APIs used by Warcraft III were deprecated. Their old drivers were notorious for being buggy, and it is quite well possible that these sort of bugs have persisted to this day. On the other hand Warcraft III was originally designed to use Direct3D8, with it being moved to Direct3D9 more recently for Windows 10 performance reasons. It is completely possible that obscure changes to API behaviour result in it now touching undefined behaviour where as before it did not. Like wise it could be that recent changes to graphic code to support wide screen have accidently touched undefined behaviour due to inexperience with using such deprecated APIs.
In any case hopefully this will not matter much in the long run since Reforged will likely be using D3D11 or at least a very different, shader driven, render pipeline which will not run into undefined behaviour or driver bugs.
If you want this specific bug fixed then they will probably need a lot of data. Such as what graphic hardware and driver versions are effecting it, and possibly even a reliable way to recreate the problem. Currently the problem seems extremely random, with some people never encountering it, which would make it extremely difficult to diagnose the cause and fix it.
I can’t believe you think hive is causing desyncs. I believed in you.