In that case, the Protoss’ empire side makes sense. I can believe that the Protoss could grow the civilization and conquer the galaxy during that time. I could also believe that the Preserver’s system could be developed to a point where the next generation is trained from birth.
However, on the Nerazim’s side, everything is quite conflicted. How long they survive in secret on Aiur. How come they hiding perfectly fine long before Adun and then get discovered fairly soon after he supposedly help them. How they replenish their number. The Khalai’s mind set; they discovered that the Nerazim was lived peacefully on Aiur for two millennia and their reaction as a galaxy conquer race is ‘Oh, no! They’re going to spark a civil war so horrible we’ll plunder back into Stone Age! Let kill them all!’
Seriously, with the event happened as it stands; there is no satisfied timeline where it all makes sense.
They weren’t being secret. The Conclave knew about them. They were just taking a really long time deciding what they wanted to do about them.
Adun helping them was a response to the Conclave declaring them all heretics who needed to be Warhammer 40k’d. It is then discovered that Adun was helping them rather than purging the heretics when they lost control of the powers he was teaching them and caused a lot of destruction by accident.
With babies? How does any group grow their numbers?
Remember that this is the same body that said “hey, our planet is being invaded, lets send our best military mind off to go hunt down an ideological enemy on another planet.” And it was a far from unanimous decision.
Sorry, this is actually a genuine question. I’d like yours and other’s opinion on how exactly are they going to replenishing their number. For me, since it makes more sense for them to be exiled soon after the Khas, there is no need to think about that. The replenishing of their number while hiding on Aiur is something I’ve never given any thought.
Well… My entire point is that this timeline is ridiculous, but if you’re going to (rightly) point out that the Protoss themselves are ridiculous; I guess you’re right and win the argument?
So, the conclave took 2 millennia to reach a decision? Okay… I buy it. But then, they also know that the Nerazim existed peacefully all these time and never thought about leave them be… I mean why deal with them in any way if they’ve proven to be peaceful for 2,000 years. Just treat them right a naive fauna!
Think about it. Isn’t all these destruction occurred prior to Adun interference? I thought the Nerazim don’t know how to control their power without the Khala. That’s why they got discovered in the first place. These destructions supposed to end once Adun introduced a whole new type of power to them. A power, which lets them cloak. Also, I assumed that with Adun’s ‘teaching’, the Nerazim learned to gain a better control over their power, this reducing the destruction rate.
Presumably its just a private decision some of them make. They aren’t portrayed as being a unified or organized group until Adun interferes, so presumably its simply a bunch of introverts each individually deciding to not bother with this Khala nonsense and just keep to themselves. Its not a hugely complicated thing.
As Adun pointed out, what the Conclave wanted to do was unconscionable, and decided on based on ignorance and fear rather than rational decision making.
Youre misremembering. The destruction was a result of trial and error learning their new Void powers, not uncontrolled Khalai powers. The destruction did not occur until after Adun began teaching them. The discovery was not of their existence overall, but of the fact that Adun had been hiding them rather than killing them.
Exactly, if they’re fracture group each living separately and small in number, it wouldn’t be long before they encounter problem like inbreeding (if that’s a thing for the Protoss) among other. There is a lot of trouble associated with being small tribe living in Stone Age. I have no problem believe that the Khalai can advance that much in 2,000 years, but for the Nerazim; they can’t go about stealing from the Khalai, they can’t advance scientifically, the general population of the Khalai know nothing about them so no outside interaction.
I don’t think they could survive that long.
Ignorance and Fear of what? A small fracture tribe that live in Stone Age hiding in the Forest? Oh, right, they’re a bunch of idiot…
Hmm… I’ll need to find those book and recheck it, then. I thought that the Psionic Storm is a Khalai thing, while the Void has a mind blast or something. I believe it was mentioned in Void Ray’s short story.
Anyway, what exactly does the Nerazim have prior to Adun’s? Do they even use psionic of any kind?
I think youre confused. They aren’t separate from the Khalai at this point, they aren’t a separate genetic stock. Its more like having a different religion.
Psionic energy types don’t really have completely exclusive abilities, but they do lend themselves to different disciplines. Void energy is better for subtle stuff, like cloaking, but the Khalai can still manage the technique, and likewise the discipline of the Khalai gives control over Psi Storms, but that doesn’t mean the Nerazim cant muster up the ability if theyre willing to risk it.
Anyway, prior to Adun, they use the standard khalai psionic energies, but since theyre trying to keep to themselves, they don’t really pick fights or anything like that.
Not to rehash this topic again, but that’s impossible since they cut their nerve cords and cutting your nerve cords forces you to use void energy. That’s why the dark Templar developed all those void energy techniques/technologies (because they were forced to).
Not all of them did so. Beyond which, we know severing your nerve cords doesn’t completely prevent you from using Khala energies because the Void Ray still functions for the Tal’darim and the Daelaam after the corruption of the Khala, which would be impossible if they couldn’t access those energies. I also doubt that, ie the sentries would just have a perfect conversion to the new power type without any errors, but unlike with the void rays, the use of khala energies is not an explicit part of their function.
They’re separate for all intend and purpose. They’re like those native tribe who still live in the jungle and keep to themselves while we study the cosmos and live with technology.
Genetically speaking, they could mate with the Khalai. Practically speaking, however, they don’t. They live reclusively with no interaction with the Khalai.
That’s not really supported by anything. While plenty undoubtedly live alone, or on the edges of their towns, they weren’t hiding in secret isolated communities. They were still part of protoss culture and civilization.
How? They have cut their nerve cord. How can they live at the edge of town without alerting the general population? Or still be part of the general culture and civilization? How can they interact with any of the Khalai without immediate showing that they’re not part of the Khala?
Actually, this is quite confusing for me. Where exactly are the Protoss drawing their psionic energy from? Are they radiating those energy from within? Or are they merely a conduit?
It’s internal, khalai energies are the energies used by the khalai, not the energies of the khala itself. The khala granted the mental fortitude and possibly allowed khalai to draw on energy from their companions, but wasn’t a source of energy or a connection to one.
We see as much in lotv where the khalai continue to use their normal energies, although explicitly with a lot more difficulty because the psionic safety net is no longer there. The same thing happens in the DT saga, where the Aiur Tal’darim (khalai survivors that Ulrezaj drugged and secretly taught the ways of the void, even slowly modifying their brains to cut them off from the khala) use Zamara’s knowledge of the rouge’s exile to create massive psionic storms, while the un-drugged survivors use the khala to channel the storms against Ulrezaj.
The nerazim also didn’t regularly cut their nerve cords until after their exile (where it became a ritualistic practice). I imagine the rogues could live in society though, Protoss can close themselves to the khala whenever they wished and living a double life where they connect as much as they need for their daily activities, but cut themselves off at every possible moment and conspire with those who do the same, doesn’t seem to difficult. It’s not like philosophical disagreement with the khala requires uprooting your life, it’s entirely possible there were varying degrees of rogues, from radicals who severed their nerve cords and lived in the jungles to disaffected judicators that secretly snuck out every night and shut themselves off to dance with the naked hippies
The one Judicator who revealed their existence to Adun said that “some” of them had severed their nerve cords. Some requiring that it not be a defining trait of them.
No it isn’t? Its clearly proof that nerve cords are not required to access Khala energies.
They get it from an external energy source. There was a dev Q&A that said the Khala afforded the protoss a massive amount of energy to draw from. It said:
“Yeah, I mean, basically, any protoss that is a part of the Khala is going to have an enormous psionic energy to draw on and can create, you know, obviously, weapons and blades with it.”
If it was just internal, there’d be no distinction.
Kelthar and I just established that Void Rays and Sentries gather the energies of the Khala via technology, meaning they’re getting it from an external energy source that isn’t individual protoss, so it’s impossible for it to be (only) internal.
In LoTV we see protoss continue to use khala energy by connecting to it via technology i.e. forearm bracers and the khaydarin amulet, which allows the high templar to “channel the energies of the Khala”.
Psionic storms can be created by any protoss. It’s not evidence that they’re channeling the khala. What happened is that they started developing void powers because that’s what always happens when you’re cut off from the khala. Same thing happened with Lekila in that Twilight Archon manga. It’s always the same.
Oh, well yeah, Tassadar did that in SC1. But you can’t use khala energy if you’ve cut your nerve cords.
Yes. For technology. Biological protoss have a biological apparatus that allows them to do something similar (nerve cords). When you cut it off, you’re going to start channeling energy from the void, unless you use technology to draw energy from the khala. That’s why it’s significant when your nerve cords are cut off.
This is stuff from the manual: “It was widely rumoured that since the Shadow Hunters were cut off from the primal chord of their race, they were forced to draw their psionic energies from the dark, cold void of space.”
Same thing happened in the DT saga when the Aiur Tal’Darim were cut off from the Khala via sundrop. They didn’t just keep using their Khalai powers like normal, they started learning void powers. Same in that Twilight Archon manga.
Tal’darim use void energy.
What Purifiers use is a good question. My bet is that they access khalai energies since they were made by khalai phasesmiths who wanted them to be as close to regular templar as possible (which is why they gave them an artificial khala as well). However, it’s thrown off by the fact that they have that orange light instead of regular khalai blue for all their tech.
In both of those cases, those disconnected from the Khala were specifically being taught void powers. Protoss purple prose aside, we have direct evidence of Khalai protoss continuing to use khala-associated powers and technologies after they cut off their nerve cords. Sentries could conceivably be using stored energy, but psi-blades and khaydarin amulets and the like use the individual protoss’ own reserve of energy, just like a ghost’s cloaking suit. Theyre focusers, not batteries, like using a magnifying glass to burn an ant with sunlight.
That doesn’t really add up. Training in void powers would be completely pointless if they could just pick up where they left off and keep using khala energy like nothing happened. This is why they have nerve cords and why it matters when they get cut off. Connecting the protoss to the khala is their function.
Yeah, but it’s augmented by technology in each case. You’ve also got three separate examples of protoss that were forced to use void energy when cut off from the khala. Seems pretty clear cut that you can’t just use khala unaided when your nerve cords are cut off.
They don’t care about the input energy though, their job is to just output a blade of whatever energy type they were built for. That’s why Artanis has a green and blue warp blade at the same time. Zeratul’s warp blade that he uses will never be blue though.
For the imitation Tal’darim at least, the void powers were specifically helping them to survive against the zerg. The point wasn’t just different energies, but different techniques like (presumably) blink or cloaking. There was an actual tangible reason to do it the way they did.
As for Twilight Archon, as I recall that was written before Wings was even out, and im not even sure if we should consider it canon anymore, since Twilight Archons are not a thing.
Ok, but then Artanis shouldn’t have been able to go and free the other zealots on Aiur, and they themselves shouldn’t have been able to use their blades. At that point theyre all still using exclusively their blue Psi-blades, but by your claim they would have needed to adjust to using Void energy, and we know that takes time to learn to use safely.