Why Free to Play made me a smurf

Such a dumb argument anyway. First of all, the system shouldn’t be like it is. You shouldn’t be able to leave games like that and they should bring demotions back.

BUT…

Those gamess can give you some experience, every game you play is important imo but that’s just for the dedicated. It can scare people away from the game. It’s already a hard game as it is and you get guys that are literally toying with them just for fun and… For what exactly? it’s just like facing AIs, might as well play that. Smurfing is such a selfish practice.

While diamond is probably the point where the probably of being smurfed by a freeloser starts to decrease, I think you must’ve missed some of them. I usually play between 2.9 and 3.2K MMR (which is just at the doorstep of D3) and currently I feel the 22% is underestimated. You feel it’s 6% or less.

The thing is unless are systematic randomized method is applied both your feeling and mine can’t really be relied upon. So then again, the best estimate we have is my thread’s randomized study. :thinking:

But this is not the point I was making. I was saying that whether they smurf at bronze MMR, gold or platinum, diamond league is statistically the original/true league from most metal league smurfs. Best estimate is 22% or all metal leaguers ladder accounts are smurfs. This is actually a great number of players. What I suspect, is that when those are trolling in the lower leagues, they aren’t playing in diamond. And so the actual player pool available for a game at the diamond MMR gets reduced. And so the MMR matchmaking range gets wider. And so getting matched with people 500-700 MMR above you could in fact be linked not only to players of higher skill being less many, but also to the smurfs not being their to answer the call in their original leagues. :thinking:

I used to do that, there isn’t that much wait in fact, both to join or to create. The issue… is that there the discrepancy in level can really be massive, and if either your opponent or you are considerably weaker/stronger than the other play, either the build works more wonderfully than it should reasonably ever fare (you kill the opponent with your harass timing :laughing:) and so you can’t fully unfold let’s say a 3 bases build ; either your build fails where it shouldn’t. And you can’t draw conclusions from both. :neutral_face:

The only good thing is that compared to the IA, you’ll face the unexpected, which is an execution challenge.

You openly admitted so some months ago. Did I mention most smurfs always deny doing so at first ? :slight_smile:

Already heard that from you. I remember having answered by a question : if men looks for solutions, and boys for excuses… what are then the individuals who create the problems the men have to deal with ?

This is theoretically true. In practice, it’s the opposite for several reasons :

  1. Most smurfs conceal themselves, and so most regular players won’t know they are fighting a smurf from the start. Heck, most players don’t even know how to confirm their opponent was a smurf afterwards. Which therefore would leave them towards biased conclusions afterwards ( xxxxx imba ! xxxxx OP ! xxx this game ! etc. etc.)
    • One of the motives the smurfs most frequently alleged was to have a “relaxed” experience, which implies they find playing against a similarly skilled opponnent too stressful. Well, guess what, regular players have to deal with that very same tension.
    • And more in fact, as smurfs both have greater skill (= more tension on the opponent) and tend to be more toxic the the regular (insults, taunts “ez” etc.). All of that hinders the things that could theoretically be learned from the experience. Contrary to a friendly coaching lesson from a higher league friend, for example.
    • Not to mention, that a lot of times the conclusion would simply be that there is a gap in mechanics. And this, could lead you to draw wrong conclusions. For example, a smurf 1 bases RR pressures you. You defend with 2 bunkers and a tank just away enough from the bunker for the biles not to reach. You defend almost perfectly. Then you go to counter, and get rekt by a massive army on 3 saturated bases. The conclusion you could then draw is that your defensive reaction was inadequate… but this is wrong. Your defensive tactics could have been the best choice available, but as your opponents just has superior mechanics, you cannot get the rewards from it. Hence the possibility of drawing inadequate conclusions.
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I have one account…I don’t smurf. Ya’ll are nuts.

Instead of blaming some person who’s punching down a few brackets, how about you blame yourself for not playing better?

Smurfing in 1vs1 games is much different than smurfing in team games because in 1vs1 YOU are the only variable that matters in relation to your opponent. In team games other players on your team are a variable that YOU cannot control.

And frankly, if you have time to whinge you have time to improve.

So, which would you rather do? Cry about it or get better at the game so smurfs don’t beat you anymore?

If you cry, then expect to not be taken seriously given the context. Watch the replay, see what the difference is (it’s probably general efficiency unless you’re being cheesed) and adapt.

Winner mentality vs loser mentality.

We’re not. Nordy and Ondskan have noticed how often you were advocating for smurfing.

As for me, I’ve got a memory :

Told ya. Most smurfs always deny at first. They’re not proud of what they’re doing.

I have my ways of dealing with smurfs. As you said yourself, real men search for solutions, don’t they ?

Now I don’t see no-one crying here. And most of the regular players are trying to improve. The issue here, is that as you improve, you’ll only get matched against stronger opponents, and even stronger smurfs. So it doesn’t ends just like that.
There seem to be a turning point about this around D2 MMR however, as it might be where most smurfs originate, and so below that is the limit of skill they’re able to troll.

But to get there is a long road, even admitting all players could ever reach that level (which isn’t a given). And while I have accepted it for my part, I think the deviance we call smurfing might deter newcomers (who expect the matchmaking to work normally) from being hooked in the game. And so to slowly kill it. :thinking:

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No, you are nuts and both of those users are extremely toxic/unhinged. Lets not use the words of people who can’t behave themselves as fact. Especially when their argument effectively boils down to “spoon feed me wins because I don’t want to take active steps to self reflect for the purpose of learning”.

I don’t advocate smurfing, I’m saying that it’s a non-issue given the context of a 1vs1 format. You hold the power in this situation, there are no variables outside of your skill vs the smurf’s skill.

So you can either cry about smurfs OR you can watch your replays, figure out why you lost and learn.

I started the game as a 12 drone rusher back in Wings of Liberty and stayed that way for years. I was objectively horrible at the game and I learned to play better by practicing and watching my replays/pros play until I understood the tempo at which StarCraft 2 is played at Diamond +. This argument of taking time is obvious. Most people don’t get better over night unless they have an epiphany.

Newcomers are not going to face constant smurfs. Smurfs are fairly rare and what is often mistaken as a smurf is an inactive player (such as myself) who comes back once in a while for a few games. If you have PROOF to the contrary, by all means, share it.

You are not guaranteed to face opponents of equal skill and when you get your butt whooped that is a learning experience.

TL;DR losing to smurfs is a you problem because there are only 2 things that matter: your skill vs the opponent’s skill. If you can’t take the opportunity to learn from your mistakes then you have much, much bigger issues than winning a game of sc2. This is a life skill.

Yeah I’m the toxic one when you are calling people children for not wanting to face smurfs and reporting people the second a discussion doesn’t go your way haha XD ok bud.

Also everything you said about me is completely baseless. Glad to see you have also resorted to putting words in my mouth, twisting my position to fit your agenda, and you also straight up ignore every single thing anyone says that refutes your stance. You’re literally the worst type of person to have a discussion with.

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rULoBsT3rK1ng?
.:crown: :thought_balloon: Clean your room, darnit
:lobster:

Anyway you might have a point but , well, I guess I’ll take all night talking about it.

For starters, I’ve been playing Starcraft ever since it came out. I was 13 during its release (August/September) and 14 soon after (October). I’ve been an avid RTS gamer all my life - first game was Age of Empires 2, later Age of Empires 3, the original Starcraft, Warcraft, etc. I played at a local LAN in Vancouver at the age of 14 at diamond league and reached masters league at 15 years old. I’m older now, and have since “quit” Starcraft, in a sense.

I see so many people here saying that “those who quit don’t really like SC2” anyways. They’re so wrong, in so many ways - I’ve spent bus rides staring at Starcraft apps, to the point of memorizing how much damage every single unit can take, how much health each unit has, doing battle simulations on my head. I drew pylons whenever I was in class and thought of SC2 non-stop. I dreamt Starcraft dreams and played SC2 exclusively everyday. Even when LoL was on the rise, I played SC2 and actively promoted it. I played during class (in CADD) and I played during lunchtime. I did exhibition 1v3s against my noob friends at school to show what SC2 is capable of so others would be interested in getting good at the game. I watched SC2 religiously and was super excited for HotS, snuck on to watch Blizzcon during class, and could describe any player in the GSL from personality to playstyle. I loved Starcraft II back then, and I still do now.

But I quit. The reason why I quit was simple - Blizzard stopped caring - about the game, about the community, about the player. I think the beginning of WoL was great - we had MarineKing with the name Boxer living up the legacy with great marine control, we had the Polt vs Jinro ‘drama’ and the foreign hopes in both Idra and Jinro. It was a golden time for Starcraft. Probably the greatest time was 2010 Blizzcon Finals with Mvp vs Nestea, with nukes on Shakuras Plateau - I remember the hype, and John the Translator’s speech.

Then what happened? 4gates for PvP throughout the entire history of WoL. The imbalanced time of 1/1/1s. Later in WoL, Broodlord Infestor turtling. Protoss turtling.

Remember when Sniper won a GSL, after doing mass infestors and mass fungal against Ryung (refresher: IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA), somehow coming back from an impossible game? Remember when the top 4 in multiple tournaments were all Zergs? Remember when Blizzard patched that only… 3 months later, despite nerfing Ghosts snipe damage two days before one of the biggest MLGs? The inconsistency in balance patches resulted in perhaps one of the longest one-race-dominated time in Starcraft’s history, that being Zerg at the time. But there’s no need to dwell in the past - this was the past, surely after the community outcry, Blizzard has gotten better at listening to the players, right?

Nope.

The community has told Blizzard what we want multiple times. I’m sure Blizzard knows the importance of community feedback. Not every idea is great, no, but if everyone agrees with an idea, it’s generally a good idea to add it for the players so they’ll be happy. Blizzard takes a slightly different approach.

We have an extreme amount of posts detailing the design failures of the Battle.net 2.0 interface, to no changes. We’ve asked that you can name your lobbies like the original Starcraft - nothing’s changed. Make the game feel more alive with auto-connect chat lobbies and so forth. Nothing. We want an Abathur voice pack, nope. Unit skins? They added them, yes - and never added any new ones since the beginning of HotS. Clan wars? Nah, we’ll wait till the next game. More team game support - nope. Ban maphackers. Still no official reply. Swarmhosts are boring. Only took several months before they addressed it, and they’re still working on a fix! We’ve told Blizzard a ton of times we’re willing to throw our money at them in Starcraft if they’re willing to add unit skins or voice packs - and they’re not doing it! I’m done waiting for Blizzard to have their interface have as much features as their original game from '98, and I’m done waiting for Blizzard to “ban in waves” (or so they say), and I’m done waiting for Blizzard to reject my money then report to the higher ups “Starcraft can only make money on initial sale”.

While this next point may be up for debate, I would say that the player experience is the most important aspect of any game. If you look at Blizzard as a Hearthstone player or World of Warcraft player, you really feel the sense that Blizzard cares about you as a customer, and actively tries to make the game better for you (whether they actually do do that or not, that’s a different story). That’s why they changed the auction house in Diablo III. That’s why they’re adding expansion packs for Hearthstone and a new expansion for WoW every two years that changes everything up with balance patches, completely new content, and so forth.

As a Starcraft player, do you know what I get? Late balance patches. Maphackers ravaging the ladder. The idea that I have to win 50 games in order to get placed in freakin diamond. An interface that hardly connects me with anyone. “Clans” that can’t do anything outside of make announcements for clan wars which are hosted in lobbies that aren’t customizable. A poorly run WCS with late rulesets after the tournament already started.

On top of that, the fact that I have to win 50 games in a row to get back to platinum from gold is absolutely sickening. I don’t see how getting a player to commit an entire day of grinding pointless ladder games was a good choice by them, but they continue to stick by it. If anything, it’s a greater deterrent for any ex-diamond players who wanted to play one or two ladder matches before dinner (eg. me), because they know that those games aren’t even going to be a challenge. Furthermore - the fact that they spent time on revamping the MMR system (which wasn’t even originally terrible, just a couple minor tweaks would’ve done it) only meant less time they had to work on just about everything else the community asked for. Priorities, Blizzard.

The game isn’t dead by any means, no. Starcraft still has the greatest number of interesting personalities and drama, there’s still tons of tournaments, and lots of pros still play it. But I can’t help but get frustrated as a player, at all the decisions that Blizzard has made over the years - the lack of support, the late patches (that were sometimes pointless, like eg. bunker time 30 → 35 → 30 → 35 or oracle speed changes four times), the lack of care and quality that Blizzard is known for. It frustrates me to no end that Starcraft, the game I love, could’ve been so much more - that being good at the game and the ridiculous amount of skill and practice it takes actually meant something; that it could’ve been the number one game on Twitch in terms of viewership; that people would flock to stadium to watch one of the greatest, most competitive, high stakes game ever created - but Blizzard just flat out didn’t care. Originally a diehard fan, years of Blizzard’s wishy-washiness and lack of commitment to Starcraft II just makes me feel hollow inside.

Yes, I agree with Nazgul’s post as in the community should not be so negative all the time. “ded gaem” is not contributing positively in anyway. But I do believe that criticism, in general, for Blizzard is needed - in every game, the ones that are the biggest fans should be the biggest criticizers. I believe that over the past few weeks or so, Blizzard has been trying - their latest post was certainly a reassurance that they’re at least attempting new things - but as they don’t continue to work on the game even after Legacy of the Void comes out, I don’t see SC2 lasting for the long run.

TL;DR - I don’t feel like Blizzard cares about what Starcraft II is up to, and couldn’t care less if it dies. Their stubborness in some of their design philosophies, late patches, constant problems, map hackers rampaging ladder, inconsistancies and not really caring about the community makes it so I just don’t want to support a game with all those problems. I mean, even Riot, with much less money, posts lore stories, balance patches every so often (with a complete redesign every season or so), things fans have made, host art contests, and generally attempt to get feedback from all their players - and uses their feedback in future patches.

I acknowledge that I’ve been wanting to write this for a while, and as such my bottled-up emotions may have led me to state certain things with a slight bias. I believe that my points, generally, are objectively true but of course, my opinion of Blizzard is an opinion. I just want to speak for the players who quit for similar reasons like mine, and perhaps if Blizzard is reading this, do something about it. Because seriously, I really want SC2 to succeed.

note: I still play this game, but casually with friends in 2v2s and 4v4s. I also watch it quite regularly whenever there are some good names. So please dont smurf or defend people who do.

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It’s so sad, I genuinely believe that the project has been ditched, that the devs have moved on. I’m not sure why no-one can step in and fix up the game, and yeah it does feel like the game needs more care. The silence really sucks, who knows why they don’t talk, maybe it’s a bad time, maybe they have moved on, we are just left with nothing.

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Alright so who wrote this :

Calling others nuts when your own words refute your next ones, interesting isn’t it ? Not that you weren’t grasping at straws already.

According to your own words, leaving in teamgames makes the whole team smurf unwillingly. So, you’re considering that the act of smurfing itself is here a prejudice to players that would want to be matched accordingly right ? Why then wouldn’t it be a prejudice to 1v1 players who’d also want to be matched accordingly ? You’re forcing a twisted matckmaking on others either way. :neutral_face:

Dude, you’re tiring with your own contradictions. If the ladder works accordingly, eventually at Xk MMR you’re going to be matched with players who’re gonna win 50% of the time. Freelosing smurfs being by definition players whose true MMR is X + Δ, if they play at X MMR the very system is going to make them beat the regular players more often. Even if the regular players improve from X to U MMR, the smurfs at U MMR will still originate from U + Δ MMR. And so the problem isn’t the regular players skill, whether it’s U or X MMR, but the +Δ the smurfs induce.

If that’s too complicated for you, the “gitgud so you can’t be smurfed” could only apply to ladder’s #1 player (Serral). To the 235 000 others players, it will only change the MMR required in order to smurf them.

Ondskan, I understand your point, and do partly share it. However

  • at one hand we’re still getting support (bugfixes, map pool updates, even balance changes) for a game which is 12 years old… which is remarkable. SC2 teams had to deal with problematic lead designers (such as David Kim), who enforced the spectacle over gameplay’s balance and pleasure of play. Despite that, we did get lots of balance updates, community feedbacks, and now the game isn’t in a too bad place. I am grateful for what most of the team members did along the years.
  • at another hand, they means to act have been progressively reduced, until the team in charge was even completely changed. And it seems that Bli² then having to make choices chose to care only about the game itself issues, and less and less about players induced issues (hacking, smurfing, botting, offensive chatting etc. ). And so while I long informed them about how the situation was slowly degrading, we have reached a point where it’s unlikely for them to ever take measures regarding it (since they don’t have the means to combat even those they wanted to, such as hacking). If they ever change their mind about smurfing, good for us, but we’d best have to accept this as not happening, and deal with it. :slight_smile:
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It really sucks how relatively easy changes (like adjustable camera to see more) aren’t added.

You guys revived a thread that took place more than a year ago discussing things that have already been discussed with the same group of people… If this has revealed anything, it’s that the game will never be able to recover back to any point it was in the past. It’s all downhill here. From 2018 until Activision decides to shut down the servers for good.

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smurfing IS CHEATING

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try to stop me. smurfing is life in a dead game.

I completely understand how you feel. They cheat the MMR instead of cheating the game.
However, to Bli², who were only watchful about the e-sport competitive setting, only cheating the game (to improve your competitive performance) is an offense. And so AFAIK they haven’t sanctioned anyone for smurfing, but only hacking and botting. :mag_right:

Besides, it doesn’t hurt to remind that having a smurf account in another region is completely legit and even encouraged by the system. It’s freelosing (losing deliberately) in order to play users below your level which constitutes an issue.

Who is more of the smurf that smurfs noobs or the smurf that smurfs other smurfs?

This is the definition of smurfing. You shouldn’t have a new account “recalculating” your mmr to play few easy games before dinner. You should stick to your original account. If you are a Masters grinding, you are killing the experience for the real golds and plats there who do not grind, and are genuinely playing 1 game per day. They face you and get smashed. Stick to your account, don’t be part of the problem.

4 Likes

Same… and I get angry and accuse others of smurfing then get muted because that’s the ONLY moderation blizzard does of their game anymore and its PURELY based off of how many reports you get NOT based off any valid reason…
I hope everyone I report gets punished… there are too many toxic players in this community… that have turned good hearted players like me toxic too because how prevalent they are.

Stupid post is stupid “QQ newbs” is not helping… You’re just causing the “ship” to sink faster… gj man being toxic with the rest of the “community” cuz really there is no community by and large anymore…

So many smurfs? I don’t know about that/

Even I was called a smurf - someone asked “whats the highest your rank has been?” I told him “gold 1” and he left and then whispered me things like “You are Master 1, you lying ***** ****** smurf!!” And other things

But the Master 1 was only for 2v2s so it’s not at all the same but anyways, he kept saying “Why lie?” And stuff and kept calling me a lying smurf even though I am not a smurf.

As a sidenote to some of the other posts here, if you’re truly being put into a lower league because there’s too many smurfs who beat you and you have to play ~50 games to rank up, I don’t see a problem here. That’s 50 games with other players that you can use to sharpen your mechanics and speed and consistency. Then by the end of that you can definitely beat some of those smurfs who beat you!

I really dont understand people like to play with players with doesnt have the same mechanics as they are imagine being a pro toss player like 300 apm and smurfs and plays against a terran player with 180apm . He can just simply prism play the guy and use blink stalkers. Since the terran player dont have the mechanics to play against it . Whats so fun about that? If i happen to play this kind of players its actually a good spanking but doesnt really feel good. But its part of being a scrub. Just be mentally strong its just a game Move on . You cant blame people they like playing with kids. I like playing with my kids also but in real life. haha.