Were that true, people wouldn’t be responding to me within minutes every time I grace the forums with a reply.
Ohh, you are playing the semantics game again after i threw the whole barrage of arguments again.
You do it everytime you have nothing left to say.
Globally speaking, yes, p,t,z are very very equally arranged, almost exactly the same in higher leagues.
its funny how you say “noooo we can only use the whole ladder” and swing back to “BUT GM”. But yeah, it would be cool to see an unbiased version of the gm ladder. A ladder that would only let us see the “real gms”. players with 5.4k and above (that used to be gm but due to mmr deflation we can use another cutoff ofc) and doesnt matter how many games they played, they just have to be verified and unique accounts.
because from what im seeing korea and eu is lead by a toss player…strange. almost if the top dogs arent actually ranked. where is maru in gm? serral? reynor? clem? WAIT. Clem is actually ranked. With protoss…
but hey. you distracted again without saying something at all.
You mean like same bmi means same body or if we split men and women by height they would have same height? Hehe 
You still realize you cannot make that split by mmr argument go away just by stating “no” ? you still would see meaningful differences in mmr even tho you split them by mmr because if there is a systematic difference, it would still be shown. its very weird huh? there is a big difference in avg mmr when you look at it in total…but if you take a closer look it pretty much dissappears. almost if…almost if using average as an instrument to look at the whole isnt really practical?
Said the guy who said same bmi means same body or if we split men and women by height there would be no difference in height between men and women.
you again did not make any statement at all. nothing. you again just distracted. you didnt argue. almost like you are defeated…
you are indeed boring. but so dense that its annoying and im just curious what you will do next to weasel out of everything.
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Ok, so you don’t have a refutation and are not interested in conversation on those subtopics.
Good to know!
So never use them as points again because you clearly aren’t interested in following them to their conclusions.
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No, they’re not. They’re only about the same in diamond and Masters. Terran is still at or below 30% in both leagues. This is in spite of being 36-38% of the population.
Meanwhile, the other half of my argument, that Protoss has been 35-50% over represented in GM for…? half a decade? longer? largely goes ignored… because even with you overdosing on copium you still just can’t find any remotely rational explanation why that might be.
If you reverse that, that means that when I did respond to you, I was right? Or when I respond to Sentry I’m right?
Maybe I just don’t want to give you attention and that’s what’s driving you nuts? I know how you girls get around dudes who ignore you (I’ve always been a lightning rod for girls with daddy issues).
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Meaning pretty much the Same as the other 2. So its fine.
What you are saying is all those Guys in silver and Bronze and gold MUST be Higher than they are or Else its unfair. But you have 0 Argument that Supports that Claim or Logic. You only have statistics that actually Tell you that those terrans in Bronze Silver and gold suck.
Execpt that i have ?
Of course it’s fine that your opponent achieves less despite practicing more
Right, so:
- Tens of thousands of players underperforming: Subjective explanation makes most sense, just less skilled
- Hundreds of players overperforming by sometimes as much as 50% of their representation: Subjective explanation, must be the biased ladder
- Dozens of pros of all 3 races stating that Terran is the most difficult: they don’t mean that. They mean something else!
- 5 of the top players can’t take home a trophy: Objective explanation makes most sense! Protoss is under-powered. THAT’S why they can’t win… It’s definitely not that they’re just not as good! How could you even think that?!
What can I say, Sentry. You’ve convinced me. I always thought larger sample sizes were more representative. NO WAY! Smaller sample sizes are what truly matter!
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That is Not unreasonable. And we have Stats to Back that Up. Also how do they magically practise more ? Do you still use the 1% Activity difference that occured Like 1 in 10 Times ?
Not underperforming. The metrics Tell us that they Perform accordingly.
How do you get in the hundreds when we Look at GM?
Then please give me an actual discussion with actual Players
Why do you Always distract ? This topic is Not about protoss at all.
So…all in all you have brought Up 0 Arguments.
Only assumptions such as: If terran has 36% of the Players they should make Up 36% of every League. Maybe Back Up that Claim ? Despite the overwhelming evidence that those Guys in silver actually belong there and do suck.
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You don’t. You had one stat, which is just “I split players by MMR and they had similar MMR.”
Did you know that if select all the people who are between 5’7" and 5’9" they are much closer in height to people selected at random!? What a MAMMOTH finding lol.
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Why do you answer within minutes? You Always brag about how you dont do it and everyone that does that is somehow a weird loner without Hobbies.
Except that wasnt my only stat? You know ? Apm spm Spending coefficient Activity etc etc.
Oh yes. Nice try. We are comparing a 50% Split with Something Like 5 7 and 5 9. Wow good Job. That will teach me a lesson.
Man. Can you come Up with a single reasonable Argument? Everytime you try arguing its Just an embarrassment
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Your words, not mine. I never even thought this lol. I just said you were more emotionally attached to this topic than I was.
Terran doesn’t have higher APM than Protoss? HAHAHAHAHAHA! What?
And you even proved that Terran has higher activity. Even you don’t believe yourself now.
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And zerg have Higher than terran. Sooo?
Last 9 Times i checked they were on par.
Do you have any Arguments at all ?
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Even on activity, behind on MMR. Sounds fair to me!
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No, it means you had a refutation and when you did, we then had further conversation.
Where are you pulling this first bullet from?
This assumes that high level players pick their race equally randomly, which Sentry demonstrated months ago is almost definitely not the case.
They indeed mean that the typical Terran playstyle that wins games at their level is the most difficult way to play. They do mean that, and I have no doubts that they do mean “Terran is the hardest”, they just have a specific context for that. You’re then trying to take the fact that they didn’t actually nest qualifiers in their sentence to mean that they meant it in all situations / in general circumstances.
That’s like, I dunno, quoting someone saying
The Marine is a totally fair and balanced unit. Costing only 50 minerals and 1 supply, so it’s easy to fold in the few supporting units they need, when a mostly-Marine squad walks to the bar, there is no counter.
The Marine is a totally fair and balanced unit.
It’s disingenuous. It’s obviously not the takeaway from the paragraph and it’s fairly obvious that the overarching-sounding statement that was because there was context to when it was said that made it clear that it was always a specific statement.
I… don’t think Sentry said that at all. In fact, I know Sentry earlier agreed with Miro saying the polar opposite.
Indeed, mean averages are frequently bad statistics.
The reason Terran mean average MMR is less than Protoss and Zerg mean average MMR is because there are more unskilled Terrans per skilled Terran than there are unskilled Protoss and Zergs per skilled one.
If you divide the races by an average or midpoint, therefore accounting for that size difference, you get that each one averages to approximately the same value.
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Yeah. It does. Considering their apm spm Spending coefficient Splitting mmr in 2 groups and the bias that the game and we being human Put onto us so on. Yes. It does Sound fair.
Can you provide any Proof why its a Problem that they are behind in mmr ?
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you know whar a coincidence and a desk job are right
[quote="Sentry-235
some people need less practice
relevantly, not all hours played are trying to inprove
i would be surprised iif half of bronze players are tlactually trying to get better at the game
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WOW! Nifty! You got me. So you mean all the bad players just randomly choose Terran??!! And all the good players just randomly choose Protoss?! You know I never thought of it that way! God you’re so right. Except at Premier Tournaments, though. Right? Those 5 players aren’t there because of skill.
Right. So all the players who are trying to improve and/or need less Practice are Protoss. Nice!
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Yep, a classic special pleading fallacy. Dude legit can’t understand basic logic and how to prove his points w/ it. “Protoss is higher in GM because they are better, despite having skill metrics similar to masters 2 zergs” isn’t an argument, it’s literally flat earth logic applied to sc2 balance.
In case you didn’t know, lots of balance counsel members troll this forum. The only way they are going to wake up is if an AG opens a fraud investigation or something along those lines. A shadow council with no transparency or oversight is sketchy to begin with but you add on the fact that they just keep buffing protoss (even though all the data says to nerf it) and it looks a lot cheating. It looks like they are putting their thumb on the scale to favor some competitors over others. Is it illegal? Possibly. Is it unethical? No doubt about it.
This is my suspicion. They probably buffed toss for the entertainment value. They want protoss in the finals of tournaments because it’s good for entertainment. I don’t think they care at all about balance in the slightest.
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No.
No.
???
Yes? Like, that is what GM means, and the race exceeding its representation percent in GM is not like… weird?
That you, who is very obviously biased, made the heuristic for and that I have argued more than once why they are bad measurements, but y’know, whatever.
Anyone who is on such a group definitely doesn’t, because they have better things to do with their time.
Look, you are biased. You hate Protoss, I get it.
Saying the data says something they don’t say is very scummy on the best of days.
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Thats the neat part. Its not random. And there is a heavy bias towards race selection. I dont need to prove to you which bias, only that its proven by data that the bias is there and therefore race selection cant be random.
YOU have to demonstrate that terran is at a disadvantage despite we seeing through data that they are actually belonging in those leagues by their activity, apm, spm, spending efficiency and so on.
The most avg mmr has zerg.
Please come up with a little bit of logic for once.
You are throwing a fit without stating any argument or logic. This is something a little kid would do. Im asking you to come up with any reasonable and backed up argument for like 10 posts in a row now.
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