What are the best units in coop?

I can’t say if you are being ironic or not: they are detector, always stay behind your troops, invisible, increase damage done and range of friendly units.

Else why not mention H&H raven (same role of detection + increase damage) as well as obs, overseers, etc?

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This must be a troll. But I’ll bite the bait.

Havoc, with upgrades, gives a +2 range bonus in a quite large radius to all allied units. Furthermore it increases the damage a single target receives from all sources. It’s also a cloaked detector. I usually get the two first upgrades in the Core, and the increased damage debuff a little later.

When you load a Havoc into a War Prism, it retains the range aura and only loses detector. That’s amazing for any air fleet, for example I always have one following the Mothership and use it for the Overcharge. You can also add it to allied air comps, such as Horner’s units, Abathur’s Leviathans or a Dehaka with lots of Mutas or Guardians.

That said, I agree with Swanns Hellions, and I don’t like the squishyness of Mengsk’s Troopers anyway. Even the Flamethrower ones die too quickly for my taste. Then again, I’m used to beefy Raynor Firebats, especially P1. I prefer Royal Guards anyway, which is why I use Mengsk P2.

Oh, War Prisms are top tier… Mostly for the memes though, lol.

For Swann’s hellions… Yea. The only time I build them is when the mutator slim pickings is active. I know some people build them when they’re going with a cyclone build, but even then I really don’t use them.

As for the havoc’s…I know where your going, but hot damn are they one of the few detectors that doesn’t FLY in front of everyone and get shot down. Although I’m sure Alarak himself has no respect for most of his units, lol.

Hmm, looking by the unit itself and if massed, yes for sure, but havocs doesn’t deserve to be nowhere near war prisms lol, that 30% extra dmg and attack range for army is so good, benefits so many commanders as well to share a few.
At least havocs can fill it’s role, unlike war prisms that we never really use for transport.

Ok having Havok as weakest unit wasn’t a good idea.

I considered weakest units in terms of their already existing combat capability (as combat units not workers). But Havoks are purely supportive unit and a detector than a combat unit.
How about P2 Conservator? At least they have a attack and their health is merely 20/20.

Yeah but you lose detection and +30% damage amplifation. I’d see the benefit of increasing Havok durability but personally I’d rather have Havok on foot with all of their abilities intact.
At least War Prism have their use but as a combat unit goes I think it is the most useless.

The weakest is probably Supplicant, have you ever seen them kill anything?

Just ran through a test, it’s a tie.
On pure 1 on 1, Supplicant wins.
But when Vanilla Conservator uses protective field (on Consv only) Vanilla Conservator wins.
But P2 Conservator lose in all scenario.

The best units for pushing mutations are probably Destroyers, Ravagers/Queens, Primal Mutalisk, Zagara Ling/banes, Mecha Hydras, Mecha Infestors, anything Zeratul, and upgraded Troopers/Medivacs. There’s generally a lot of immunity you get when focused on those units when it comes to mutations.

Although the best for bet for mutations is none of those units because regular units fall off around +5 and +6 brutal and you’re better off doing cheese like Mass infested bunkers on p3, Zeratul p3 with only mass cannons and tornados, Lone Wolf Tychus, Mass Earth Splitters on p1, Only Airstikes Nova, Stetmenn p2 which is so OP you barely need units but go ahead and get Hydras anyway, and well actually Ravagers/Queens again also if you are good at spamming bile and running.

If you are going mass cannon his P2 is nice too.

My vote: best units

Terran: Spider Mine- best wave clear

Zerg: Dehaka Mutalisk- general purpose best boi, self reviving too

Protoss: Alarak Havoc- best stealth detector… non suicidal and invisible, adds extra damage as well.

TERRAN: HH (Sovereign) BC
They’re beefy, and their mini-yamato cannon is strong against high HP targets, but still delightfully overkill on lesser ones (even though you should remember to switch back to lasers in that case)

ZERG: Stukov’s Infested Diamondbacks
These are such a joy to use. With 8 range, have them loiter behind your infested walkers, and they can pile on the bile damage from a safe distance! They’re fast, and have limited AA capabilities due to their Ensnare ability!

PROTOSS: Artanis’ Dragoons
Sorry, but these are just too spammable and A-movable! As someone who used Karax for a long time, it’s nice to have a goon equivalent (in this case literally!)

Keep around half of the BCs in laser mode seem to balance out quite well

I think “weakest” is pretty hard since most “weak” units serve another purpose.

I think “least useful” is easier to determine/get consensus of (either cause the unit is absolute, or because it does its job poorly).

Like Kerrigan Bloodlords, basically do what ling/works/tyran do, but slower.
Or Fenix distributor, good anti ground, but so are most of his units.
Karax phoenix, I actually only use them if the enemy has lots of lurkers/siege tanks and even then not more then 6/8.

And I’m probably forgetting lots of other units.

My list of best units would be…

Zerg: Abathurs max biomass vipers.
Hard counter pretty anything (except flying heroic units). Dirt cheap for what they priovide.

Protoss: Alaraks max stack Ascendants.
Good against anything. Even crazier burst DPS. Very tanky. Only downside is their need for supplicants and the cooldown for consuming supplicants (which can be mitigated by having more ascendantes)

Terran: Novas Ravens.
When in critical mass, they are good agains anything - half a dozen or so can defend 3 entrances on DoE without support. Cheap. Mobile. Detection. Great single target and AoE. Only downside is their production coodlown, which is mostly eliminated with P1.

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I never managed to add those to my armies as Alarak. I guess it’s for people that love extreme microing. :thinking:

I actually see this as an issue of “macro’ing”.

Generally speaking, yes, you obviously do need to cast Sacrifice to gain stacks. However, a lot of that is heavily hinged on how well a player can macro. What about macro? The ability to balance a consistent stream of balanced units to resources available (ie. how many Supps and Asc to warp in, to sacrifice, and thereof to keep to tank).

It’s that balance that’s more key to having a consistent and therefore smooth stack. On top of that, keep them alive is needless to say very important. Although, to be fair and frank, once a few stacks in they are plenty bulky already, losing them at this point is more or less a strategic issue (ie. engaging when you shouldn’t thus losing them all kind of situation).

Honestly i would say ascendants require medium level micro at most. Not sure what part makes you troubles, but i would not consider my micro to be great.

Side note: i am a notorious F2 user… i am trying to change, but it’s a hard habit to quit.

However alaraks army works quite well with F2. I have alarak on 1 and all ascendants on 2. That is. Thats all army hotkeys i use with that build.

Normally I F2-a-move all army and then select alarak or ascendants and micro them.

When you have enough ascendants (like 8+), microing alarak is not important any more (unless during empower-me). If you have plenty supplicants, alarak will never die… especially of you micro your ascendants, which will provide alarak with more than enough healing from dying enemies.

For me this usually means one of these input sequences (after F2+a-move):

2, f+click, f+click, f+click, f+click … (spam mind blast, aka hybrid mass exctinction)
2, t+click, t+click, t+click, t+click … (spam destruction orb)

If you insist on microing alarak at the same time, you can insert this in between 4-5 ascendant casts:

1, q+click, w+click

Btw: you do NOT need to have ascendants at level 10 (or even 5) for them to be a powerhouse. At level 3 they 1-shot archons.

You don’t need to. You can just spam more spells.

I feel like that makes more sense than sacrificing at max energy, which in some sense wastes the energy one could get.

Ok, I always warp in ascendants + supplicants together and then sacrifice with each new ascendant manually exactly once immediatly to get their low inital HP at level 0 (80 HP) to level 1 (180 HP), which helps them survive early on (80 is just too squishy).

Aside from that, i pretty much never saccrifice manually. I just use orbs / mind blasts really liberally and trigger auto saccrifices that way.

I also dont pay attention to their levels… i spam their spells with every engagement, while adding new ascendants and supplicants in between. having 30 ascendants late game is not unusual… some of them are level 10, some are level 1. It requires a lot of gateways to feed so many though… i usually have 9 - 10 (for pure ascendant build anyway).

It’s a bit haphazard but it works well and is easy to pull of. Not sure how you play them, but I feel like keeping track of my ascendants levels (if you meant that) and saccrificing with only those that are under level 10 would be too much of an attention drain for me.

Generally speaking I agree, there’s definitely a lot of “auto” stack gaining as players use Ascendant’s abilities.

To that I would say, based on my experience, manual sacrifice is important as well. While it is lesser perhaps frequent than the auto part for players, it is that very difference that makes a strong Ascendant play distinguish from a very strong one.

I find it generally the more familiar a player is with it all, the more so they know when and which to do so. A lot of spamming for me personally as well lol.

For me
“Weakest” = unit that can’t do much against enemy by itself. For example, one zergling. Overlord and any other units that can’t attack aren’t considered “weakest” because they are not combat units.
“Strongest” is therefore unit that can deal with a lot of enemy even alone.

“Best” units are units that (1) can handle many situation or (2) deal a lot of damage while (3) relatively cheap for what it can do.

  • Unit that can handle many situation: marine are better than Zergling because it can attack air, it has range so it can attack enemy on cliff or over terrain which melee unit can not.
  • unit that deals more damage: in its entire life time how many damage it can deal. Zergling, being low health and melee, can not deal more damage than Marine even though Zergling has more dps than Marine. This is because a zergling will die before they can attack more than 3-4 times against an attack wave or fortification. A marine being ranged is in safer location to dish out the damage before they meet their demise.
  • resource: 200-supply creeper host army can clear virtually everything from a safe distance while for Banelings and Scourge they requires much more resource than 200-supply creeper host to kill every single fortifications on map + all the enemy in all attack waves which is why i chose Creeper hosts instead of baneling and scourge. baneling and scourge are free but creepers are also free. The thing that costs resource are Baneling & scourge nest and creeper host.

oO’

For a F2 a move adept you sure like hard to use units. I was trying to find units harder to use for a joke but could not find any.

Vipers, while being very strong, are mostly forgotten (with brutalisks, leviathans, buffed ravagers and great mutas and … Everything but Vipers are F2 + A friendly for Abathur).

Nova’s Raven are mostly used for their heal and some abilities now and then but to clear waves with them that’s much harder.

You sure like some technical units :stuck_out_tongue: