Ultralisks needs nerf (2024)

General Discussion
21

Are u arguing that they have advantages on counter wow.

Creep is hardest thing to defend and if chose fight on then that’s your mistake.

Ultra is weakest unit and 4 pop ghost can take out 6 pop and 6 pop can take out 12 pop.

Problem is Terran can hard counter ultras but u rather cry that they become efferent against marines.

22

hahahaha OMG hilarious !

23

Yes, to reiterate:

Being more mobile than your counters is a significant advantage, yes. It allows you to attack where your counters are not, and it allows you to avoid fighting until you are either cornered or have developed some advantage that allows you to win. Most of the units that you brought up for comparison are much slower than Ultralisks, and usually have the disadvantage of being unable to avoid their counters.

There are a number of other points that I made which you never bothered to address.

No, it is usually very risky to try to clear creep, and easy to defend it.

Creep is very easy to spread, very slow to retreat, very easy to respread after tumors are killed (just place new tumors before the creep has fully receded), and it provides both advanced vision and a significant speed boost to Zerg units.
Individual creep tumors also cover a fairly large distance, so unless you catch an edge tumor while it is spawning, most units will have to travel quite deep into the creep to actually kill any tumors. Killing creep with any “speed” also requires traveling relatively deep onto it to clear out a group of tumors at once.

First, the use of the word efferent is completely wrong here.

Second, I do not think that Ultralisks are currently a problem, and I was not complaining about their current strength. I disagreed with your ridiculous argument that Ultralisks need to be buffed to the extent that they can walk over Tank lines, and I explained my reasons why. To reiterate:

  1. Attempting to buff ground units to a-move through Tank lines always results in overpowered units–Such as Warhound and mechanics like Hardened Shields.
  2. Siege Tanks have always been a counter to Ultralisks when used properly, without interference from spells like Blinding Cloud. This was the case in SC1, and it remained the case in SC2. Simply put, the Siege Tanks’s range and burst negate most of the Ultralisks advantages in direct engagements.
  3. Ultralisks have no need to counter Tanks on their own. Zerg has plenty of other counters to Siege Tanks, including things like Ravagers, Brood Lords, Swarm Hosts, splitting micro in smaller engagements, and support spells like Blinding Cloud and abduct that allow almost any Zerg unit (including Ultralisks) to trade favorably against Tanks.

Third, Bio players typically complain about Ultralisks because they haven’t prepared to transition ahead of time. This is not a problem with the Ultralisk’s strength, which is why I don’t agree with players who think Ultralisks are currently too strong.

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24

Ok major problems with ur assement on creep.

First Terran has longest range that can target creep without being on creep. So Terran has tools. So if creep is contested Terran set defensive line.

Bottom line if Terran just running around marines and nothing else. It’s more problem marines broken and never be forced to play like then they cry that ultra to effective against is dumbest thing.

Then make well they weren’t ready transition. They have unblockable scout that is called scan. Ultra is late game it’s at 6 to 7 mark plus’s have be 3/3 to effective. Only way their weren’t ready because mistakes they made.

I find race that has every tool available to them only ignores since they want play one dimensional and win. Removing rts part out it.

Plus’s you can’t throw other units without throwing options of Terran to counter those.

25

Siege Tanks “can” kill creep tumors from outside of their range, but every other Terran unit needs to enter creep to clear it, after which Zerg usually drives them off and replants the tumors.

Relying on Tanks alone to clear creep, without ever stepping onto it, is so slow as to be impractical. You can’t ever attack the Zerg player or do a push if you rely on that method, as you will have to wait a long time for creep to recede before you can even move forward. During all of that time the Zerg player can freely tech-up, expand, and spread creep throughout the rest of the map pretty much uncontested. It’s a recipe for getting overwhelmed by any competent Zerg player.

This is why players generally try to clear creep with Hellions early, and something mobile such as a detached Medivac-Bio force later. These attack groups can clear multiple tumors at once and retreat, which can potentially open up enough space for future attacks if Zerg doesn’t replace the creep tumors.

I addressed this earlier:

Marines are not broken. They are high risk, high reward units that depend heavily on micro, critical mass, and support from other units to remain effective after the opponent employs certain counter units of their own in decent numbers (Banelings, Chargelots, High Templar, Disruptors, Infestors, Lurkers, Ultralisks, Battlecruisers, etc).

Some of those threats can be handled with micro up to a point, but eventually Terran needs support from other units (Tanks, Mines, Liberators, Ghosts, Marauders, etc) in order to compete. In TvZ, even Bio players (the good ones at least) transition almost completely out of Marines at some point to deal with threats such as Ultralisks and Infestors.

While I agree that Bio players need to learn how to transition better, this isn’t simply a matter of scanning at the right time.

Terran needs to spend a lot of time and resources to create new Add-Ons and/or build up a bunch of Factories & Starports with their own Add-ons in order to switch from Marine-heavy Bio into another composition. This means idle time on workers, idle time on production facilities, and that much of the old production infrastructure basically falls out of use. The transition takes a considerable bank, it is a significant period of vulnerability, and it arguably needs to be planned and start happening before the Ultralisk cavern is even built.

I assume this is regarding Tanks and Ultralisks:
That doesn’t negate point #1, it doesn’t negate point #2, and it doesn’t negate point #3.

It barely addresses point #3, because of the details regarding how most of the “counters” on both sides actually work. Even when Terran has the right composition to deal with Zerg’s tank counters, those counters are still reasonably effective.

  • Ravagers: The counterplay to Ravagers is to either dodge the Biles (Sieged Tanks are incapable of this) or to kill the Ravagers before they can launch those Biles (which requires either a ridiculous Tank count or an army that can arguably tear through the Ravagers and their support without the Tanks). Adding different units to the Terran side doesn’t do much to change the situation here, as its mostly about the Terran army’s ability to deny Ravagers from getting close enough to launch their Biles on the Tanks.
  • Brood Lords: Thors, Vikings, and Ghosts are all capable of countering Brood Lords in the right situations (sometimes Ghosts and Thors can lose), but if the Brood Lords are attacking anything within a Sieged Tanks’ range, then that Tank’s mere presence becomes a liability. The same is true for Locusts from Swarm Hosts if the opponent doesn’t land them before attacking anything. Tanks can only prevent this by unsieging or target-firing all of their shots on something else in range (if that option is available).
  • Vipers: Vipers versus Ghosts, Vikings, & Thors comes down to a micro battle rather than a direct counter. These units must shoot down the Vipers before they land their Blinding Clouds. If Blinding Clouds land, then the Tanks or Thors are out of the fight for a while, which may be long enough for Zerg to run over them. Vipers themselves also soft-counter both Vikings and Thors when paired with other units, although they will usually take some damage on the approach if an Overseer or a Corruptor doesn’t soak for them first. Landing Abduct on a Thor can be a fair trade for the Viper if it can manage that, landing Blinding Cloud on Thors can take them out of the fight, and Parasitic Bomb on Vikings is arguably more devastating for them than for other air combat units due to their own combination of health and mobility. Ghosts will one-shot Vipers with Steady-Targeting, but the delay still gives Vipers a decent chance to get their casts off (EMP might prevent a cast, but the Vipers can recover energy faster than Ghosts if they survive).
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26

I carry the motion, do something about their armor type, wtf! AHHH!!

27

Because outside mineral base units it melts so let’s just remove all buffs and just watch marines kill it.

28

Carrier and ultras usually clean me up but I’m a noob. Vikings don’t usually beat mass Carrières for me and all ground for me i get wasted by ultras usually after we trade a lot of army and he remaxes with then and steam rolls me cause of zerg unit switches and don’t know its coming

29

Well when fighting you go to unit you should ask one questions

1 what direct unit can counter me

So let’s look at unit marine Zerg has mainly 3 choices really with out going into combating

Bane its problem it’s costly, even when they win it still costing a lot more. Go for Zerg just build enough with over costing them bankruptcy or not enough where they die without hurting anything. They got health nerf just so marines can countered them easier.

Then marines can split which makes bad for Zerg.

Now infestor fg since other two skills won’t work well or not at all.

Fungle growth it got nerfed bad now takes 3 fg just to kill a marine and energy rate slower vs just making a new one. Fg can be dodged and if Terran has decent production. Then next batch Zerg be empty

Then goes to 3rd option the ultra if upgrading there huge tells he might be picking this unit is look at armor

Now marine can do very little here and that’s complaint because marine micro can turn most situations into soft countered ultras force them to use different unit altogether and that’s real complaint.

30

Ultrlisks are fully intended to be countered by anti-armor units, if you want to remove that weakness, you will have to nerf them HEAVILY! Ultralisks would need to lose almost half their health for removing the armor-tag to be balanced.

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31

Ultralisks do not need a nerf. I’d argue they need a buff. Let them cliff walk over other zerg units not named Ultralisk and give them that Aberration upgrade where units under them gain +X armor. I think it was +2?

Also, increase the room they need to path so they don’t derp up so easily by trying to clown car a choke point they can’t get through. They’re the only unit in the game that has a retarded AI guiding it and it won’t matter much at the higher end of skill levels since all it does is make the AI do smarter things which they’d do if they micro’d them.

Now they do their job properly: big, thicc meat wall that tanks all the damage so the zerg main force can breach while also being devastating if they get close enough to start attacking. Right now Ultralisks are style units. You do it to BM your opponent because if you can win with ultras you can win with anything else instead.

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