Most armored ground units have at least 1 armor like the Thor does. That particular stat is not a problem and it does not prevent “light ground units” like Zerglings or Marines from tearing Thors apart.
The Thor’s ground attack also has a 0.8332 second (0.595142857 LOTV faster seconds) damage point on its ground attack. This means that the Thor has to wait that long before its first attack on any ground unit. If the target unit dies or the Thor is ordered to move or attack something else, then the Thor has to wait again for its next target. Multiple Thors can also waste up to half of their shots on the same target, since there is a delay before the second shot where other Thors can attack and kill the target instead.
The result is that Thors are very bad against any ground unit that does not have a particularly large health pool. They are more or less designed to counter tough ground units like Ultralisks, Archons, and Stalkers; basically anything where they won’t waste shots and where the target does not have enough DPS+range or DPS + health to destroy them first.
300/200/6 is far too expensive for an anti-air unit that can only counter light units and cannot even do that well. That is why High Impact Payload was added in the first place.
If one of them had to go, it would be Javelin Missiles. Javelin Missiles deals pathetic DPS and has such a tiny splash radius that it is rarely useful. Despite the fact that the attack is heavily specialized against light units; Thors can easily lose to equal supplies of Mutalisks (which are not balanced for direct combat) when they use it.
What bothers me, a main part of the tempest redesign (changed from anti air since these guys weren’t skilled enough to balance it, admittedly) is that it was supposed to end colossus vs colossus games.
There isn’t a single unit in this game that you could make that would result in you having a worse win rate vs colossi builds than a tempest. Zero sarcasm/exaggeration.
You know what would own colossus builds 100% of the time? The thor.
That just really puts it into perspective how bad this team is and especially when it comes to the tempest. Like… they deserve zero benefit of the doubt. They’ve already had to change the design because they acknowledged they had no idea how to balance it.
Now I’m here, along with everyone else, to acknowledge that they still can’t balance the unit. Get a new team or actually try to make the unit good. It’s INSULTING to play this game and try to pretend any of this stuff makes sense.
You’re taking a leak and a dump on me and trying to tell me it’s raining mud. No one who plays this game should expect anything to be perfect. If being perfect was easy, we’d all be top 1 GM worthy. But, where is the effort? It’s like they’re trying to be bad. Like they’re embracing it.
That’s what irks me man. If you’re not going to be talented to begin with, you better at least try harder than the next guy. There isn’t amount of clown emojis I could use to express this clown business.
Terran has more amazing splash damage options vs air than Toss even has units that shoot up. Let’s give the race with the best anti air the hardest air units to kill, to boot. Time to hire a magic 8 ball. Would seem less random.
If Blizzard wanted to balance the Tempests as an anti-air splash unit, they needed to make it a smaller, lower-supply unit like the Corsair or the Liberator.
A capital ship with splash damage is too much of an investment, and it would cause some problems because the units that are usually designed to counter capital ships happen to be smaller or lower-supply units themselves such as Corruptors or Vikings.
To use Brood War as an example:
Corsairs and Valkyries were hard-countered by Battlecruisers and Carriers.
Wraiths and Scouts could beat Battlecruisers/Carriers quite reliably on equal supply; at least if you had enough control for the number you were using.
-Corsairs and Valkyries would beat Wraiths, Mutalisks, and Scouts quite reliably after hitting a certain critical mass. Wraiths/Scouts/Mutalisks could try to mitigate that effect by splitting, but after a certain point that tactic would no longer be effective.
If the tempest would be too much of an investment if it actually had a role it did well at, then what is the tempest now?
Anytime you see a tempest, you know Toss lost. No one gives a single you know what about the tempest now. Everyone would much prefer a tempest that did splash damage to air. Not a single Toss player would choose this tempest over a redesign.
This is easily the worst unit I’ve ever seen. The fact that it costs a lot and takes up a lot of supply is just a never ending prank.
I’ll choose a unit with a purpose any day of the week over an expensive dumpster can. Plus, the balance team would NEVER scrap a Toss unit design if they thought it was too weak. Clearly, it was “too good.”
This is funny thor never got buff to anti ground capabilities but suddenly is OP …
both tempest and thor have same role as anti massive air … tempest is massive air thor isnt … do not use tempests to fight thors … use disruptors …
Which unit is better vs massive air or any air? Which unit is better vs ground? The only thing the tempest can do is fly. That’s its only ability. It flies. The only fans of the tempest are the Wright brothers and the people who get the chance to play vs the tempest.
It’s so dumb to link a video of a guy playing an opponent over 1k mmr below himself. I went to a minute 47 by accident, which resulted in me hearing about how strong 2 gate is in P vs P. This guy knows jack about Toss. His job is SC 2, so he has to say something.
If you’re going to link Vibe stuff, though, how about linking the vod where his 3 thors beat 4 tempests and 4-8 zealots without losing a single thor. I’m pretty sure that’s more indicative of balance.
Moreover, I’m literally the first guy ever to do tempests, disruptor. I opened tempest, disruptor when the mothership core was still in the game. That’s how long my history goes back with this comp. If I’m saying it’s trash, it’s trash.
have speed 3.15 thor has only 1.875 (isnt that the slowest unit in the game ? …)
anti ground 10 range vs thor 7 range
anti air 14 range vs thors 11 range
cost less and build faster
Don’t switch the game-speeds when you do these comparisons.
If you are using normal speed (editor values), then Thors move at 1.875 and Tempests move at 2.5. If you are using faster speed (multiplayer display values), then the Thor moves at 2.625 and the Tempest moves at 3.15.
The Tempest is still a faster unit with longer range against air and ground; but it is dishonest to use different game-speeds for each unit when doing a comparison.
The tempests all target fired the same thor. During this, Toss ran in the zealots and still couldn’t even really come close to even killing 1 thor. Vibe thought this was so insane that he spent like the next 5 minutes talking about how ridiculous it was.
Siege unit is a siege tank/lib… you trade all your mobility for the range .
Tampest can kite and poke it isnt siege unit … it is used to harras enemy army and his main role is long range anti air … they are exelent vs libs and broodlors … thor is direct counter to tempest …
Without commenting on balance either way, have you considered writing comedy? If you found something a bit more mainstream than SC2 to be angry at you could probably channel all this energy to something that brings money, if not joy.
Whether justified or not, I always had the reputation of being the funniest person in school. People assumed if it wasn’t sports, I’d either do stand up comedy or write for shows.
I’ve attempted neither. In high school, I created a website where I did sketches/skits for my amusement and a friends. That was the extent of it. I always enjoyed the thought of that kind of stuff. It resonated with me. I just never tried/applied, and now that phase/interest has passed.
I have an outlet for that kind of stuff (not this), which is more important than the monetization aspect.
Claim to weirdness: Simultaneously being viewed as the funniest guy and the quietest guy, yet not always having both reputations among people.
You always hear people say “they’re a family person.” Well, I guess there must always be a flip side. Family members would confront me in utter disbelief, as everyone that would mention me would say I was the funniest person they had met, yet… after so many years… the family members were still waiting for me to even say a word.
Story of my life. Once I figure out the monetization of weirdness/peculiarness, I hope you guys don’t miss me too much.