Based on the resources lost tab it was more of a break-even than a fail for zerg. Zest was oblivious of the ling flood until it was knocking on his front door, yet he is able to hold anyway. Could he have seen it coming? Maybe, but why do that if it costs worker mining time when you can you can blind hold anyway?
Regardless that is not where Zest’s priority was. He went for a twilight and early stalker (to deny overlord scout). Would have been a much easier hold with a earlier 2nd adept (but he wouldn’t have been able to deny the OL to keep a macroing zerg blind, so that’s the trade off you face).
Followa up chargelot, doesn’t do anything with it and delays his 3rd for ages. Meanwhile DRG cuts every corner, late spores, 7 min without starting lair, no chance to tech in order to afford drones. Couldn’t even afford a creep spreading queen. Might have been a real problem if Zest had been inclined to do something other than sit on his 2bases with 5 gate charge.
because baneling will burst down the front door if the Zerg decided to make baneling.
Zerg get to get 3 bases while Protoss can get only 2?
Do you see something fundamentally wrong here?
Baneling exist. Also, since Zest is struggle to hold up the defense, there is no way that Zest will be able to divert some resources to make flying units. Even if Zest decided to make flying units, queens are enough to deal with em. No need for spores or Lair or anything you mentioned.
That only really happens if you don’t grab your first expansion early. Which really should be a lesson of always grab your first expansion and do everything you can do secure it.
Protoss vs zerg opening always involves grabbing the first expo because you’re not going to train out enough zealots/sentries/stalkers to beat a zerg player even if you get a rush going as fast as possible.
So the strategy (at least for me) is to wall off grab the first expo then rush to robotics/stargate tech (depending on what I scout).
If I see hydras robo > Colossi, Roaches Robo > Immortal Bane lings Stargate >phoenix with zealot support. transitioning into whatever unit counters what they compliment their banelings with, for example if they start getting roaches I will swap to Stalkers, if I see hydras or just lings I will add some sentries to the mix.
usually that gives me enough of an edge to take out their army then begin harassing their bases to gain an advantage.
Hatch is zerg units/worker production:
Now you can say why zerg doesn’t build his 3 base in the main. → The use as 3Base is higher, because then you have production and a base for mineral mining.
3Base is a more ecco style 2:30~3:00min. but until min 5-6 toss and zerg have the same amount of workers. But toss has tec advantage. The difference is that Toss has more workers in gas and Zerg in mineral.
!But there is also Z-Build with 3 base all in most cases but then less workers at 2 base!
If we are to make it simple, then each larva can be count for 1 production build for protoss and 0.5 for Terran with reactor. That’s huge because Zerg doesn’t waste his money to build any production building if he want to mass certain units. The one downside is that he has to keep oversee the injection but that’s a non-issue for people who main Zerg.
How much does this save the Zerg in term of Economic? more than thousand of minerals and Gas. This also come with a bonus of vision with creep spreading going on the Queen. Most people see larva limit as the down side but when you look at the whole picture, that’s is nothing when it already has a way to work around it and come with a huge benefit.
TL;DR Zerg production is OP.
In term of economic, the Protoss is nowhere close until he got enough production building out and match with the Zerg. Each production building Protoss has to build also cost resources while Zerg get it for free when they build mining base.
That a big bonus even in the early game.
it seems like people responding dont play this game lol. which is weird because this is a sc2 forum. zest is actually behind after the ling flood. resources lost tab means nothing when you are locked in your base (and even then, DRG is ahead in this regard), have cut probe and spent all of your minerals making new gateways, because your old gateways you could have produced off of have died during the attack.
also, “champ”, players buy a stalker not only to deny scouting, but because if you go adept > adept, you die to bane bust. banelings do bonus damage to adepts, making them the best place to hit the wall if players bane bust. there is a reason stalkers are part of every build now, even stargate build.
also… these builds don’t exist in a vacuum. zest can’t just plan for a ling flood every game, just like DRG cant plant 5 spines and 4 evos because he is afraid of a chargelot all in every game. most games, zergs just build 4 lings for the adept scout, and nothing but drones, 3 spores, and upgrades until protoss sends adepts out or a warp prism out (which you will see with overlord, giving your units plenty of time to build). if zest builds blind batteries and extra gates, and goes adept > adept every game, his win rate goes down. opening SG is the only way to hold this without taking the damage he did, but it hits before the SG would even be finished. if he had built an oracle, perhaps he dies because he cant afford to rewall. the shield battery boost thing is much needed for moments exactly like this
it seems like people responding dont play this game
Yeah, everyone here feels the same way.
Like what the heck, you only look at all-in in one game, like what, the whole sc2 depends on it? While I am just wonder how many games would Dark want to throw due to his all-in next season.
If a strategy can do damage to put you ahead even when your opponent accounts for it perfectly, it would not be utilized as rarely as ling flood is, in a professional setting. It is viable enough to be used in a BoX (best of X), every now and then, but not viable enough to become a standard opening or something you will see in most BoX.
This kind of feigning containment so opponent is scared to move out is a risk itself and utilized not just in this particular game and it worked.
Zest opened twilight, if he had opened Stargate, with oracles he would have hold the agression, and counter attacked (killing workers, forcing DRG to make spores).
The cheese of DRG is probably not random, and a build designed to beat Zest who must use this opener regularly.
The economy of DRG was really optimized, he had 19 drones, and mined no gas, so he has 1 full base mineral saturation + 3 drones.
Zest had 31 drones. 2 gas and you see 5 probes on B2 + 3 for building the wall.
So he had 31-(6+5+3) 17 probes on B1 mineral. So during the attack, he only had +3 probes on mineral more than DRG (and one on base saturated).
He totally stopped making probes during the attack. He lost a toons of mineral from buildings killed. The only advantage he has at the end of the attack was he mined some gas. What he did with the gas ? Sentries. It’s cool but really passive, and actually he couldn’t expand while he was already behind.
He had twilight, a darkshrine would have been perfect as DRG tech to lair really late. His ravager/lings would have been hard countered by DT as he had no overseers.
But the reaction of DRG was perfect vs the composition of Zest. He read him, and beas him, period. That’s just better decision making on that game, nothing related to balance.
DRG pulled out of gas so a bane bust wasn’t possible. Did Zest know that? No. Could he have known? Yes, it would have risked the probe longer and lost more mining time but he could have gotten the scout.
But If protoss can hold without having to plan for it (because as you say, protoss can’t plan for it) even from a less optimal opener, then why should protoss get a lead for holding it? I would get it if protoss saw it coming a mile away and prepared only to fall behind anyway but zest got to blind hold it with basically no prep.
Sound like defender advantage is non-existence and the side with aggressive tendency doesn’t get punish for it.
In any strategy game, early aggression come with a punish in a form of losing the economic advantage due to high investment in army. While the defender of the aggression get nothing basically, he is still ahead due to the other side slowing down their eco for army which we call it a gain/lead.
Evidently, that’s not the case due to how the Zerg work, and how the Protoss defense suck so bad that their “Defender advantage” is essentially non-existence. This is what happen when they introduce mechanic to counter Protoss while also nerfing the Protoss. Nothing can survive that.
If you want real defender advantage, try playing Terran: Plop down a seige tank and see how you get those “Defender advantage” going.