Terran lategame is stronger than Zerg on GSL level

General Discussion
61

Vikings are literally DIRT CHEAP you should not be even complaining about anything regarding vikings until you come to terms with the fact that they are absolutely DIRT CHEAP.

They are fodder practically with nice long range that if you even bother to micro parasitic bomb is not going to make a difference.

You simply click and pull out a viking and on top of that terran has the usual over powered ability of dropping mules literally in the time of need that can repair them on site and why use mules when at that stage of the game you should have TOO MANY SCVS which means you are looking for excuses for them to die so you could have 15 scvs repairing them.

Need I remind you that REPAIR IS STUPID AND BROKENLY OP IN SC2?

At the end of the day parasitic bomb SHOULD BE GOOD VS VIKINGS.

It sure as hell is not good vs those high health and over powered battlecruisers. Which when massed are just going to EZly walk over everything zerg has.

Combine repairing scvs/mules with Battlecruisers and you got an unstoppable killing machine. They will kill everything including corruptors.

But JUST IN CASEā€¦ YOU GET OUTPLAYEDā€¦
THE EZ MODE RACE AKA TERRAN

CAN WARP BACK HOME WITH THEIR BATTLECRUISERS!

1 Like
62

Vikings are more expensive than Mutalisks (which have an easier time mitigating Parasitic Bomb), and they are about as expensive (although 25 cheaper on gas) as the primary air-to-air units of the other two factions.

Thatā€™s not really a relevant point though.

Parasitic Bomb has a radius of 3. It takes quite a lot of time for Vikings (which are slower than Mutalisks and much squishier than Corruptors) to clear that distance. Considering the Vikingsā€™ speed and health, they are arguably the most vulnerable combat unit against Parasitic Bomb (Mutalisks are 45% faster with similar health and fast regen, all other air combat units are tougher, etc).

The point is that Parasitic Bomb is powerful enough against Vikings that they do not remain a reliable counter against Brood Lords. Terran is better off resorting to Thors (which happen to be cheaper per supply than Vikings, if you actually care about cost, but also get hard-countered by Vipers or Infestors used properly), or Ghosts.

Repair is not overpowered. Repair costs resources (25% of unit cost, just like in WarCraft III), and the repair rate is based on the repair time stat (which is almost always equal to the build time).
SCVs are vulnerable while repairing, and they obviously arenā€™t mining while they are doing that.

Storm doesnā€™t seem good when you use it against Ultralisks either. AOE spells generally donā€™t have the damage to kill the gameā€™s toughest units in one or two casts, because in order to do so they would have to be blatantly overpowered against everything else they can hit. Parasitic Bomb does have the largest radius and highest damage of any AOE spell though. Nothing else even comes close.

As for Battlecruisers themselves. Battlecruisers have a short timing window against Zerg where they are viable because Zergā€™s strongest counters arenā€™t available yet, but Zerg is still usually able to manage them with Queens and Spore Crawlers.
After Zergā€™s other counters (Corruptors, Infestors with NP, etc) become available, Battlecruisers usually fall off quite hard. They more or less donā€™t become viable again unless you can safely build up a large fleet (something limited by the shear number of resources, time, and starports needed for this); and even then, Zerg can technically deal with a Battlecruiser fleet with enough Infestor-NPs and Corruptors.

Considering the rest of your content, I doubt I will respond to you again. It is not healthy to waste time with someone so biased.

2 Likes
63

TerranicII

Is the biggest most untrustworthy liar on the forums. OMG.

That or we need to start calling him Mr. NoKnowNothing,

Vikins cost 75 gas! mutalisk cost 100 gas.
END OF DISCUSSSION. If you are comparing mineral cost then you can look in the mirror and start calling yourself mr. Nonothing because you donā€™t know a thing.

Ya keep making excuses. I donā€™t care. You do not seem to get that a parasitic bomb is SUPPOSED to be good vs vikings.

Its the kind of relationship banelings are supposed to have vs marines. Unfortunately terran is the EZ race and those 50 mineral marines can actually simply split to negate the banelings power and they can even stim and kill them most times. Literally countering their counter. But that is another story.

LMFAO dude says repair it NOT BORKEN HA HA.
Yup we know your skill level ok.
News flash its not strategyā€¦ to click REPAIR ON PLANETARY OR BC AND WATCH YOUR UNITS WIN. That is called over powered.

SC2 has allowed this nonsense since day 1. If this were an actual RTS game where intelligence mattered then guess what you would not be able to repair while the enemy is actually attacking youā€¦ you would not be able to REPAIR HEALTH FASTER THAN AN ARMY OF LINGS AND ROACHES CAN DEAL DAMAGEā€¦ NOPE THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Its over powered accept it. Its just as stupid watching a army of corruptors trying to kill a army of BC while the BC are being repaired.
ONCE AGAIN YOU SEE HOW OVER POWERED REPAIR IS. ALL OF A SUDDEN THE BC WIN THE FIGHT.

Repair is not something that should be done DURING BATTLE. Its a ridiculous thing to occur and why this game is not on peoples #1 strategy game list. This is simply not a true strategy game. Its basically a point fast and clicky click game.

(Storm isnā€™t as BLA BLA BLA )
Ya no SHT SHIRLOCK HOLMES it was not an actual question it was a statement.
because if you knew a lick about this game then you would get my point.

Which would be " if parasitic bomb is not good vs BC and you are also complaining about it being good vs Vikingsā€¦ " well thenā€¦ IN YOUR MIND I WONDER WHAT YOU EXPECT ZERG TO USE PARASITIC BOMB FOR?

Not like I care about whats going on in there so feel free to not actually take that as a real question this time.

Mr.KNowNothing stop talking about the game.

ā€œVikings are DIRT CHEAPā€ at 75 gas. "

64

I mean regarding all the BS of your posts, youā€™re plat AT BEST. Maybe itā€™s time to spend more time in game and less whining on the forum ā€¦ You seems to have a lot of L2P issues.

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The overall cost of Vikings is higher, especially because army size is usually limited by a playerā€™s access to minerals, not gas. You can shift around your composition to compensate for units with high gas costs, but minerals will limit the overall size and strength of both your army and your economy.

It is not. The Terran player has to take workers off the line, spend resources, and said workers can just be killed by the other player while they are repairing.

You are apparently too ignorant to understand anyone elseā€™s point, so maybe stop throwing insults from your glass house.

To soften up Vikings, Corruptors, Banshees, Mutalisks, Liberators, Void Rays, Phoenixes, and other air units. Parasitic Bomb is extremely good against everything in the air except for Carriers and Battlecruisers (simply because of their enormous health pools, it still adds significant damage).

My point was that against Vikings the spell is ā€œtoo goodā€. Terran cannot effectively use Vikings as a counter to Brood Lords because the introduction of one or two Parasitic Bombs will render the fleet too weak to fight anything, even when the player tries to split. The combination of the Vikingā€™s slow speed and low health make it the most vulnerable unit to Parasitic Bomb (at least among combat units, Observers have it even worse).

And so, Terran is forced to rely on Thors (also disabled by Blinding Cloud from said Vipers) or Ghosts (disabled by damage) in order to actually fight Brood Lords. Vikings are ineffective against Zerg players who know what they are doing.

2 Likes
66

terran over powered period all enough said, had a game last for over an hour about two days ago, 2v1 and the terran just went mass pf plus mass libs static defence ectā€¦ could not brake the dude even after killing off his tm 10x times over, all his tm was doing was spore crawler/ ling harass. I mined out 3 quarters of the map and still could not break the dude yet destroyed his tm over and over till the point where i just had no minerals and everything mined out this is after destoying their mains several times to the point where the zerg was on one base most of the time, as well as destoying his expos for a bit. all he had to do was mass libs on both seig and reg and pf and turrets i threw mass bane mass ultra mass broodloard mass muta corrupter roach, literally everything in the zerg arsenal against the dude and still lost due to no minerals left and an hour + into the game. if its gotta take this long before you realize you cant break the op then there one hundred percent an op race. plain and simple enough said

just to be clear i said spore crawler which is probably 100% the wrong name for the UNIT, cause im a bit tipsy and i always get this the defence stucture names confused cause they sound the same. so were talking the unit not the structure.

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TerranII

No, you can make excuses all day and funny thing is Terran can actually mine minerals faster vs a protoss or zerg on equal bases. Zerg SHOULD be ahead but I can also argue that my infestors should not cost more at 150 gas ā€¦ compared to how cheap terran units. ā€¦ 50 mineral MARINES BROā€¦ COUNTER BASICALY 90% OF EVERYTHING ZERG MAKES EVEN BANELINGS IF YOU ARE SMARTā€¦ HELLIONS/HELLBATSā€¦ VERY GOOD UNITSā€¦ FOR MINERAL ONLYā€¦

Save it TERRAN UNITS ARE CHEAP and powerful. Its not balance from that point of view as it is.

Upgrades for terran ARE ALSO CHEAPER and also FINISH FASTER than zergsā€¦ Like again
Terran is proven to be the ā€œSpoon Fed EZ raceā€ because there is no reason to make their infantry weapons and armor finish faster than zergsā€¦ but they did it they went ahead and made terran EASIER.
Terran upgrades are usually less expensive as well.

FACT IS BAD TERRANS DO NOT GET PUNISHED FOR PLAYING BAD EVEN AT PRO LEVEL ITS VERY RARE TO SEE AND I COULD EASILY ARGUE THAT THE TERRAN LOST THE GAME RATHER THAN ZERG WON THE GAME.

Terran have it EZ they can throw games away but we all know its the EZ race.

Fact is GAS is OF HIGHER VALUE THAN MINERALS. Viking=75 gas, Muta=100 gas and you tried saying vikings are more expensive.
ā€“ NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE MINERAL COST.
ā€“ ACCEPT THE FACT THAT VIKINS ARE DIRT CHEAP JUST LIKE WIDOW MINES ALSO DIRT CHEAP.

You got 2 gas patches and 8 mineral patches. Terran has no problem taking a third the game is brain dead easy for terran.

Literally the entire pace of TvZ is in the Terrans hands. They can open up in MANY WAYS where as zerg basically has 1 option which is to adapt to everything terran is doing.

Funny thing is zerg has the WORST SCOUTING OPTIONS OF THE 3 RACES even though it needs to scout to adapt properly.

68

Now that is an unpopular opinion If ive ever Seen one

2 Likes
69

?? How exactly. Terran has scan and ravens, Protoss has obs, oracles, sentry. Zerg has Fungal and Overseers, thats it.

70

You use fungal to Scout?

I think you are the only one in sc2 that Scouts with throwing fungal instead of moving a zergling or Overlord Here and there.

1 Like
71

Do you know what ā€œscoutingā€ actually means? Hint, itā€™s not detection.

Ravens are pretty much NEVER used to scout. They require a tech-lab Starport, which Terran players usually avoid, and they are quite expensive (since they are also casters).

Fungal is not a scouting mechanic. It can reveal cloaked units that it hits, but it doesnā€™t provide ā€œvisionā€ of any location that you donā€™t already have units to show.

You are also forgetting the big oneā€¦Creep!
Creep is one of the best general-purpose scouting mechanics in the game. One that grants both map vision and bonus movement speed for you to respond to aggression. In the mid and late-game, Zerg can often depend on the vision provided by creep alone to determine what units they need to make, and still make the necessary units in time to hold off an enemy push.

Overseers are also very good as both scouts and detectors. They are quite fast and cheap (150/50 upgraded version of a supply unit that you always need in large numbers anyway), and they are very tough (200 health), so they are less likely to get picked off during scouting or killed by accidental splash during combatā€“The latter is sometimes a problem with Observers. Regular Overlords are also sometimes spread out and used for vision; again, because they are cheap and Zerg needs a lot of them.

Then of course, you have Zerglings. Zerglings are the fastest unit in the game, and they cost only 25 minerals and 0.5 supply each. You can spawn a single pair of Zerglings and scout multiple places at once.

3 Likes
72

So Zerg has the overlord/overseer and thats it. Thanks for making my point.

73

i dont think anyone actually understood what your point is supposed to be. there wasnt any point at all.

the person i replied to rambled about scouting and you were like: eeeeeeeeh, zerg has fungal.

Thank you but i rather would continue this discussion without you, as you made it clear that you have 0 knowledge about what we were talking about.

1 Like
74

Zerg can scout with Zerglings, Mutalisks, Overlords, Overseers, and Creep.

Zerg can detect with Overseers or Spore Crawlers, but since Overseers are dirt cheap and can be morphed from your supply structures at no supply-cost, thereā€™s no reason why Zerg should ever need anything else. Anything else would be a downgrade.

75

Protoss should be just as ahead as zerg in mining if not more. Zerg relies on massing quantity and protoss relies on massing quality. Terran can be dead last since they have widow mine drops and all their units and tech scale well along with mass mules in the late game.

76

I just knew you morons would instantly complain about the fungal being wrong. Its kind of hilarious how braindead yall are.

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Zerg can scout with Zerglings, Mutalisks, Overlords, Overseers, and Creep.v

Most matchups a zergling isnt getting through a wall. Mutas dont come out until 5:30 at the EARLIEST and then need 30 seconds to go across the map. Creep aint scouting sheet until youā€™re half way across the map. Youā€™re basically saying "Zerg has no scouting options until 6-12 minutes. " lol. Gold leaguers are so funny.

78

After bases are saturated, yes. But until then, Zerg and Protoss will be mining more, since they can make workers faster and donā€™t lose as much mining time to building construction. Zerg and Protoss also typically expand faster than Terran in the current meta.
Protoss mines the most very early. Zerg catches up to protoss in at around 35 workers, and Terran mules usually start to compensate after they come online (Each mule is worth ~3.5 workers, so you want to maintain a ~7+ worker advantage over a 2 base terran), but itā€™s still usually a few hundred extra minerals for the Protoss/Zerg player early on. Zerg also doesnā€™t have to invest nearly as many resources into their production, so doesnā€™t need to mine as much in order to invest the same amount in units, and it can saturate 3-4 bases significantly faster to get a larger mining advantage.

Still gives a big advantage in map vision. You can sac 1 ling to see when the opponent is starting their move out and with what units.

Overlords are also the cheapest/earliest available flying units. Theyā€™re fantastic for scouting tech; you just have to know when to sac the overlord for information.

Once you hit lair, Overseers are one of the best options for scouting in the entire game. Sure, scan has no risk, but the resource opportunity cost between scanning or dropping a mule when compared to sacrificing an overlord/overseer is pretty similar, but overseers also have changelings to mostly negate the risk.

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79

Fungal is a 75 energy spell that doesnā€™t provide vision. You have to be an idiot to consider that a method of scouting.

Detection, sure, if you already know where the units are, you can use Fungal to reveal them, but the spell is definitely not useful for scouting. If you are throwing Fungals all over the place to try to determine what units the enemy has, you are definitely doing things wrong.

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80

ive had 4 minute mutas just gotta learn how to build right dude.