Surprised No Discussion on Vorazun P2

I’m so scarred by how underwhelming her P’s are that I’m P’ing Zeratul 3x in a row so I can enjoy one OP CO’s OP P’s.

The 50% dmg reduction is a massive loss. It’s not like she generates free or cheap units. Statis Ward losing 75% duration? Even losing none of its duration would only slightly affect the damage P2 would do to units. With the Statis Calibration, the default time it exists is adequate to mess up a lot of units, no need for P2.

So far I’m keeping P1 as my default and then going when spamming DP’s and pushing early. And keeping Rays under DP’s on maps like Obliv Express is such joy. It really kills me on maps like MO and TotP where mobility/teleportation is needed (even with army splits). So on MO, I started building more static def…which I probably should’ve been doing already but usually I can manage with split army+DP teleport.

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They should just replace Vora P2 with “All Vorazun Units are now Cloaked”, its simple, its cool, and I’d be down to build some mass cloaked Voids or Archons

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But even then the core issue isn’t solved.

Like another more thematic compensation could be:

  • In addition, energy cost is halved and unit shield is doubled.

We are losing at least 50% dps and that’s at the most optimistic and optimized way of playing.

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I just checked, Prestige 2 doesn’t stack at all.
Would be nice to have them stacked so they can show some killing power.

I am thinking of stacking by at least 5 times but I need to run some test.

Wait what about Black hole? That should also have damage benefit.

They should change it so it is triggered by
-Confusion
-any effect that prevents movement
-any effect that prevents attack
(so time stop and black hole, as well as ally abilities)

That was my first question about it and the instant I knew it didn’t I decided I wouldn’t bother using this prestige. (Used P1 while leveling for P2 to get to P3.)

Btw, do different abilities stack? If a unit is DW’ed & DA-confused, does it then do 20x2 dps?

FWIW, I think this was their attempt to give her AoE damage. But at what dmg nerf % would this be worth it? It’s not a killing effect anyway - so if it doesn’t stack, there’s little point in using with any dmg nerf %, imho.

Maybe it was intended for some idef usage - since photon canons’ dmg isn’t nerfed; or for spawn camping. Btw, a unit in Statis Ward with Calibration being attacked by a photon canon doing 20 DPS is the same as just being trapped in Statis Ward in P2, but without the combat unit damage nerf and for the full duration of the statsis.

In P2, statis ward lasts 15secs - 75% = 3.75 seconds (4?) so that’s 80 dmg, without a kill. So you’d still need a photon canon or centurion/stalker to clean them up. Instead, let the unit being in non-P2 15 seconds stasis with calibration being attacked by the same canon or centurion - that’s 15 * 20 = 300 dmg and a kill. Again, the trade off is AoE since more than one unit can get trapped in a statis ward. So this prestige might work well on DoN & ME with mass Oracles. Void Arrays under DP’s are just way more fun to do than that on those maps.

I think in the hands of someone with great multi-micro and map knowledge, this can be made to work quite nicely but the default P0 works out better and with less effort.

I think it is triggered by Confusion. Or is supposed to be. But I like adding that it be triggered by BH & TS. Triggered by allies abilities sounds nice but which one’s? Non-damaging spells? If that’s an identifiable flag in abilities, then yeah, sounds good.

Although, 20 DPS x 20 secs of Time Stop = 400 dmg globally which would make it EPIC and that alone would make it worth 50% dmg nerf.

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Worst prestige in the game even compare to swann p1

Vorazun are trashier her p2 are just gimp yourself really hard

It made her weaker then level 1 vorazun with any other prestige ( p0,1,3 )

Get -50% dmg include shadow guard it take full minute to clear the rock with trash shadow guard and DoT that come with p2 can’t kill need to finish it with unit

Mind Control unit also get -50% dmg

Swann no top bar but atleast his unit don’t get gimp like vorazun

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Yeah, they really should modify the advantage, nerf or change the disadvantage, or rework it completely.

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It feels like the prestige should work on Black Hole and Time Stop as well. Especially Black Hole, it just doesn’t feel right otherwise. It also feels kind of pointless on Disruption Web since the enemies just run out of it, though I’m not sure if they lose the DoT when they do (assuming yes).

Another idea is making the Oracle’s Stasis Ward invincible and instant cast (not sure on the current cast time), though they may need a cooldown increase to compensate.

Does anyone know if Mind Controlled targets also get -50% damage dealt?

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To be honest i have not seen a Vorazun in game in months.
Seems her popularity is very low, perhaps a lot of people like her prestiges the least.
I can’t blame them though, Vorazun prestiges look both boring and bad.

I was hoping for something like “all units cheaper and do more damage but you can not build Dark Templar” so that there was a viable option aside from mass DT.

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I really wish they would have made her P2 a throwback to the old Vorazun strat of mass Mind Control, back when it was really good. If I recall, it didn’t make MC’d units lose their upgrades and didn’t take up Vorazun’s supply, and was so bonkers and popular they whaled on it with the nerf hammer.

Prestige feels like a great way to bring that back. Keep the 50% nerf for her combat units, but give back old Mind Control and let us snag up full power enemy units up to an unlimited amount without infringing upon her supply.

Hell, add in the improved Mind Control to P2 in addition to what it has now, and maybe Withering Siphon might actually be somewhat decent.

True but that doesn’t mean I don’t want her fixed to play with, I main protoss everywhere I love them. And well I have P3 on zeratul and P3 or karax and now I’m doing vora but I can’t use P2 cause it sucks right now I’m still maxing out on P1 but I know I will have no rewards when I lvl her to 15 and reset her again until I do another 15 and reset to get P3

It should be triggered by any ability that

  1. Stops enemy movement
    OR
  2. Stops enemy attack
    OR
  3. is Confusion

(so Fungal growth, Fear, Arcturus Tank Stun, Fenix Stasis/Mojo stun, Zeratul Monolith, Immobilization Wave, Graviton Beam, Disabling cloud, Nova Hellbat/Goliath stuns, Alarak stun attack, Kerrigan hero P2/P3, Fungal Snare, Ultra/mech charge stun, Tyrranosaur stun…cant think of any others right now)

If including time stop is too much (400 global nonkilling damage) the penalty could change to Shorter/removed timestop

That could be the way to make it work… confusion to kill units, MC some to kill buildings

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Yes they do stack because all mentioned abilities (Void Stasis/Disruption Web/Confusion etc) share one same behaviour/effects tweaking them is enough to affect all.

Your humble opinion is right in my opinion, I think they didn’t stack the prestige in fear of her becoming too OP, but the reality is that this prestige is unpopular because it is underpowered.

I’m not sure if that duration is long enough, Brutal time pass too quickly compare to normal times.

I think they already do.
BTW Yes on Black hole but no on Time Stop.
I dare say, 20 seconds of total immobilisation of global wide (virtual invulnerability) and increased speed/regen is powerful enough.

Prestige 2 is Vorazun exclusive isn’t it? Do Vega’s confusion ability deal damage from Vorazun’s prestige?

To make it more balanced I think Time Stop must deal 50% Global wide slow instead of complete stop.

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I don’t think ally abilities give the effect unless they are on that list
(ie Vega’s Confusion yes, but not Disabling cloud…even though it is like disruption web)

I think it should apply to all of those (partially since it makes the ability simpler)… and that it should also apply to Time stop… if it applying to time stop is too powerful… than change the penalty to disable Time Stop

I have made demo video about how to improve Vorazun’s Prestige 2.
Link: Starcraft 2 Improving Vorazun's Prestige 2: Withering Siphon - YouTube

I’ve tested them on MM, it seems as a damage dealer, they are not too shabby once you gather enough forces but the early stage leave your forces weak in dealing without their team.
Structure breaking was especially bad.

I made 2 improvements

  1. Make them stackable by 2 (3 times was just ridiculously OP (60 damage per sec))
  2. Black Holes gains Prestige 2 powers

By employing the Prestige damage to Black hole, it makes it easier for Vorazun to muster her forces large enough to direct an assault.

Nice Vid. Structure damage seems awful. Adding P2 powers to BH would help.

Wrt…

Still makes her worst problem worse. (Which I think is worse than taking away the biggest strength - like Artanis P3 Arkship Com… - takes away Guardian Shell but gives an option for fast expand, at the expense of chrono mastery. I still wouldn’t take it but it’s not as bad as what’s happening with Vora’s P2.)

Potential fix but without stacking still meh and not a positive prestige - Let units have full damage and all the buffs you mention above; and take away Time Stop. This would be the correct setting for Lock n Load :roll_eyes:

I really like this idea

Anything that’s trapped in a Blackhole dies, anything that is frozen during Time Stop dies (where the army is anyway). A global DoT regardless of any meaningful damage is way to overpowered and make for boring gameplay - sit back mass up, cast TS repeatedly then push out with next to 0 resistance. I don’t like that at all.

Focusing on spellcasters as P2 seems like the right idea. But there are several things to be addressed for it to work:

  1. Dark Archons are not as cheap as High Templar’s. So you can’t just give it a non-lethal 20DoT Confusion and expect it to be just as useful. Mind Control has high energy cost for even worse value of -50% damage units that still has 0/0/0 as upgrades.
  2. Disruption Web helps against ground wonderfully already by disabling but Vorazun’s DTs doesn’t have any issue dealing with ground units ever. Now Corsair’s tickle damage becomes gentle breeze damage.
  3. Oracle holds a fairy niche and fun position in her arsenal by doing the Stasis and still able to attack using its beam but at the cost and expertise of managing macro and energy. Unfortunately again, this suffer the same issue as Disruption Web, it boosts anti-ground for no real need.
  4. The lack of AA makes Vorazun feels bad as is in P0 against highly armored air composition (rushing upgrades is already difficult), but P2 now makes that even with upgrades the entire air roster is useless. So how to deal with it? Blackhole + Confusion, great right? Nope. Anything trapped in Blackhole dies to it in general. Energy regen isn’t fast enough to allow BH every engagement at all.

The simplest solution is to increase her top bar energy regeneration by 2x. This is a very poor but functional band-aid solution (not a fan but it’ll work).

Ideally, allow Disruption Web to affect air. So with proper management, engagement becomes much better with the massive handicap of -50% damage. This though doesn’t address against objectives (unless of course these spells are made to deal said lack of damage to compensate).

all units get cloak, but no more Dark Templars or Corsair.