I play Random mission Random Commander a lot of the time when I play co-op these days, and it seems like anytime I get Stukov on any of the new-er missions;
Sycthe, Malwarfare, and Cradle, Stukov feels very gimped on those maps, partly do to map size/creep spread or the Object themselves just instant wipe all his infested which is his full meat shield for his mech units.
Any tips? or even other even discussion?
Use some overlords to create a creep highway, and try saving calldowns for when you need to push into heavily defended areas like the objectives.
Fast expanding to get a good econ, and then getting infested compund research early will help a lot with your pushing ability.
On Malwarfare if you create a creep highway it’s a lot easier to defend the top with a few bunkers and tanks.
In general Infest Structure helps a lot offensively to have extra meatshields, and defensively to avoid bunker attrition. If there are no enemy buildings nearby you can unroot a barrack and infest that, using it in front of your army,
Follow the Stukov build order from sc2coop .com, case solved.
I mean really, that’s it.
Early on, Apocalisk and Aleksander are enough to go a long way towards bursting through objectives.
Keep the Psi Emitter set to places you’ll be assaulting. They can help whittle down the defending forces there, and no point in just having them die due to timed life, out in the middle of nowhere. If it’s not enough, then throw in an Infest Structure to sow chaos and give your infested walkers an edge. Distracting the Colosus or tanks at the back are sometimes all you need. Otherwise, if your ally can push, your infested walkers will help shield his forces.
I really like Diamondbacks. Since they got +1 range (from 7 to 8), gas cost reduction, and Ensnare can target heroic units (albeit, only lasts 2.5s on the vs. 10s on non-heoric), they can kite quite well, and do more damage from afar as your infested walkers are soaking up damage.
Tanks are still great though. Deep Tunnel to teleport to key areas. If you need AA, make Missile Turrets (only cost 100/0/0, and eat up a 2x2 building area). Remember that they too can uproot to relocate
Move your ICC (Inf. Civvy Compound) and your Barracks closer to the action. The latter costs minerals, but I float mins from midgame anyways. Having 2 to 4 Barracks on hand for a burst of Infested Marines is quite strong, not unlike Raynor’s bioball.
Personally, I find Stukov to just generally be meh. You have two builds, Bunkers or Diamondbacks. Neither of them are particularly engaging. His air is fairly meh, and his mech is just as meh.
Overall, don’t like playing Stukov at all.
To beat those listed missions easily, mass diamondbacks as quickly as you can while researching their upgrades. Just a handful is enough to push an objective if you have good positioning.
There was a similar topic recently.
Tips:
I would say Stukov does way better on the listed maps as a result of his calldowns:
Not gimped at all. Frankly, you’re better already for asking for help rather than going “Oh yeah, Stukov is just like that”. That’s how people who don’t want to improve and don’t know how to play Stukov talk - that is somehow always the commander’s design issue.
Stukov is meh on all missions.
I thought I was alone on this one. Most people seem to love Stukov, but I’ve never really enjoyed him at all
Stukov is among the weakest commanders. Thats just the sad reality.
I don’t have metrics/figures, but it seems like Dehaka, Abathur, Zeratul, and/or Tychus are the crowd favorites. Incidentally, while they are strong, I generally don’t use them b/c I find Stukov’s play style to be more fun.
By what measure exactly?
Based on records that I’m looking at Stukov performs on the same level as many commanders, such as Fenix.
What records are you referring to? Please dont tell me Speedrun records. You are aware that these are almost completely useless in determining commander strenght right? More often than not “cheese” strategys are used that only work against a very specific unit composition and rely on rng. Also Speedrun records are often very outdated/old and dont reflect current balance. The scene in general is not very active and reflects i no accurate way even the speedrun viablity of commanders.
Your best bet is analyzing polls on reddit, asking experiences Players etc. and even tho i know thats far from perfect Stukov appears as one of the weaker Commanders again and again. Or look at starcraft2coop dot com as this site seems to have a good grasp of balance and also mostly reflects the general opinion you can find on reddit and co about Commander balance.
Btw Among Stukov also Karax and H&H are seen as kinda weak Commanders.
I’m not sure exactly what the names of some missions are, but that lava one. Man Stukov is one of the worst commanders for that one jeez. Not just meh, oof.
My favorite playstyle with Stukov is just massing bunkers and infested marines. I only take the gases in my main, and I try to expand as soon as possible. I do double engineering bay upgrades, and I mass barracks. 1 factory/armory, but no starport.
Hate to tell ya, that’s exactly what I used. Seeing as you already got it up your bum about it, I’m guessing there isn’t much to discuss.
You assume that everyone who looks at speedrun records or solo run records are elitists and unworthy of validity (at least by your tone). When in fact, it is just a metric. My take on this is that at least it is a form of metric, and no single metric is perfect. So take it for what it is - metric vs pure opinion.
I don’t see why this would be “best” in any sense of the word. And let’s say I believe you, have you done this? Where exactly are you pulling your support from.
And nowhere even on Aomaster’s SC2coop site, or M’s site, or the outdated TL guides mention anything of how “gimped” or let’s see how did you put it… "
Just saying that personal opinion is all just that. I don’t have a strong feeling about Stukov to be honest lol. I Just find that people get so head-strong about personal preference of a commander instead of objectively measuring it fairly.
Ultimately, each commander has their unique playstyle and that’s why they are fun. They are like different tools in the box. You either know how to use it or you don’t. Some are better for a job while others a good for another. Comparing them like this is a pointless exercise.
More useful perhaps is discussing how a particular commander can improve I suppose.
Blasphemy. H&H are awesome. Slightly brittle maybe, but top of the line in terms of DPS and map presence. I know you’re not making the argument necessarily, but I’m going to disagree anyway.
Stukov is definitely idiosyncratic. Whereas most commanders have distinct armies and engagements, he fights in a more “continual” way and kind of wears away at the opposition. He’s kind of like mass carriers. Low DPS, but also rather inevitably. I think Stukov’s problem is his strengths don’t lend themselves very well to tight timing or finishing ASAP, both highly valuable traits for co op.
And nowhere even on Aomaster’s SC2coop site, or M’s site, or the outdated TL guides mention anything of how “gimped” or let’s see how did you put it… "
While Aom doesn’t put it on the site to not give newer players a preconceived opinion, he often mentions on his streams that he thinks stukov is the weakest commander (mostly when he randoms into stukov)
And that’s fair. He is entitled to his opinion and so does Joridas.
It doesn’t make them the weakest. I’m just not sure why so many people are hating it lol.
Even by mutations, different commanders have different strengths. And while stukov obviously isn’t ranked among the highest, he isn’t on the lowest either.
Well someone has got to be the weakest commander. Who do you think it is?
Weakest perhaps isn’t the correct word, but perhaps most problematic. Based on the number of requests, proposals, and other topics related to changing and rebalancing Karax, my money is on his smith-rear.