Amon is so, so bad though. Nyon was more interesting and we wouldn’t even know his name if it wasn’t for his portrait.
The Overmind was a fleshed out character with an interesting dialect and clear motivations. He wants to be perfect and because of the knowledge of Xel’naga experiments it gained when it ate its creators it thinks that eating the Protoss will accomplish his goal.
Amon is a one note personification of teenage angst. Why he wants to comit omnicide is never adequately explained and the hints we do get come at the last possible second and don’t explain much.
No, you said you didn’t realize he was the pinnacle of good writing. Pinnacle might be to strong a term, but I’m explaining to you what he did do to explain why he is considered an excellent writer.
That’s nice that you like GRRM. He’s writing what he is because Tolkien came before.
Could Tolkien have written his works without a retcon? Sure. Would it have been better? He didn’t think so, and history shows he did an exceptional job.
Yes, he’s an excellent writer and deserves credit for launching modern fantasy. No, he’s not automatically a better writer than everyone who comes after him just because he came first… That’s pure nonsense.
Sweet, go ahead and send me the version he wrote without retcons then so we can compare the two.
If he exercised more foresight and planning so his works would gel together and have less inconsistencies it’d be objectively better.
Stop worshipping him. Nobody’s perfect. There’s always room to improve.
The core problem is Amon is universally hated as a character and GoT is critically acclaimed (as a book). If you ever get to double digit IQ I’ll explain why that makes you look like an idiot.
I didn’t say he was better than GRRM, I said GRRM is able to write what he is because of Tolkien. Those are very different things.
You’re also trying to skew and confuse things. @Kelthar brought up Tolkien as an excellent example of a retcon done right that enhanced and provided better overall story telling. You then jumped to an extreme. I’m explaining why Tolkien was referenced. You then went on a tangent re: GRRM. I’m again explaining why he’s considered an excellent writer, despite using retcons.
Now to paraphrase you and using your own logic: Cool, send me the version he wrote without retcons so you we can compare and see if it’s objectively better or not.
You’re making assumptions, since you have no way of knowing if it would have been better or not. The author didn’t think it would be better, for reasons he explained in a forward, and obviously the literary world agreed.
I worship no one. I respect people for works well done. Big difference.
Right. Which has nothing to do with what I said. You inserted yourself into me and Kelthar’s conversation, not the other way around.
And I never disputed that. Just pointed out that it can always be better, and that there have probably been better writers since him.
Neither do you, so stop saying “history is on your side” or whatever. All you have is an example of a story that turned out well despite retconning. That’s not proof of anything. There are stories that turned out well with poorly written characters, but nobody is going to argue that poorly written characters enhance the story, which is analogous to what you’re trying to argue about retcons.
In a hypothetical scenario with stories that are otherwise identical, the one with the least inconsistencies wins. I just assumed that was common sense.
I refuse to believe it’s physically impossible to write The Hobbit and Fellowship so that it’s both just as good, yet consistent. That’s a defeatist attitude.
I don’t hate him, and last time I checked I was part of the universe, so you’re wrong.
GoT as a show, book, and concept, is an affront to fantasy as a genre.
The only reason it’s critically acclaimed is because critics don’t know a thing about quality, they just know how to tear uplifting media down and promote drivel.
I don’t really want to write an essay on why GRRM was a talentless hack, and I honestly don’t care if you agree with me on this.
Just know that he’s an insult to the genre and his audience, and acting like he’s the standard for any kind of writing will only get you mockery and scorn from me.
GRRM’s A Song of Ice and Fire was heavily inspired by Maurice Druon’s The Accursed Kings, a series of Historical Novels in 14th Century France. In a way, GoT isn’t really fantasy, it’s an historical story with dragons added in.
From what ive seen, GRRM is a lot like George Lucas in that he has a lot of good ideas, and a lot of bad ideas, and his work really needs somebody to trim out a lot of the crap before it approaches good quality. That’s why Game of Thrones is so much more popular than the books; it has an outside voice saying “no, cut this, change this, don’t do it this way” to keep his work on the level.
I dunno, from what I’ve heard the show was a pretty faithful adaptation until it ran out of material to adapt and went off the rails.
From the books, which I have read, he’s a great world builder and has really solid and intricate plotting. The setting itself it pretty dark and brutal but weather you like like it or not is more on personal preference then execution, and it is well executed.
GRRMs biggest problem is that he is not a meticulous planner, and due to lack of foresight has completely lost control of the plot, which is why Winds of Winter has taken this long, Dream of Spring probably will never be written and he’s writing spin off material like Fire and Blood instead of finishing the main story.
Im given to understand that the show cut a significant amount of random background content from the books, which is part of the reason it was able to catch up and out pace them so quickly. That and GRRM is a slacker who doesn’t want to finish what he started.
Entirely possible, as I haven’t watched the show myself. I don’t recall being bugged by the subplots in the books though, at least early on.
The problem right now is all the main characters are off doing thier own thing, getting further apart from each other, with no sign it’s coming back together any time soon.
It sounds like the opposite of what Kelthar said. Dan and Dave pretty much ruined the show because it turns out they have no talent. Yet it was good when GRRM was an advisor.
Oh @Gradius, always dealing in extremes and nothing else. Sadly, the world isn’t black and white.
By insisting that retcons are a sign of artistic weakness, you’re denying the fact that any creative endeavor is an organic process.
For Tolkien, he didn’t just do his retcon, but actually worked it into “The Fellowship of the Ring” as a story element and example of the Ring’s corrupting influence. It was very well done.
