Even cannon rushes hardly ever are decided in 3 mins unless the person getting rushed just doesnāt want to deal with it at all and leaves the second they see a forge.
The only cheese I can think of that can actually end the game this quick is 12 pool in PvZ if the toss doesnāt wall. But even then if the toss try to hold it at all it will likely last longer than 3 mins. But even if you arent for the 3 min then make it 2 or 1. Something, literally anything would be better than nothing.
3 minutes isnāt a good cutoff for a freelose. Iāve been screening for those since quite some time now, and though when I can I just look at what happened build and army-wise, Iāve never seen a regular game where the opponent had realized he had a reason to surrender under a minute. Each time the game is lost with a duration of 0:xx, itās a freelose. Earliest motivated quit from raging players were upon scouting, which can happen around 1:30 (which is my cutoff for the API searches).
Iād set a freelose definition for a game lost < 1:00. A guy who leaves in 10s doesnāt do it because heās being cheesed.
As for adding 5 minutes queue time for each consecutive freelose, script wise that would be quite simple. Itād be a bit longer to set in place a system to detect games lost < 1ā, but I donāt see it taking that long for a Skyrim modder to do, nor having a noticeable performance impact. Just make the script run once (for the player) at the end of each match and weāre good to go (plus as Nordy said, thereās already a similar script for XP). For SC2 devs, that would probably be childās play.
There are people who leave upon scouting a counter build, so the leave timing of such games is their scouting oneā¦ or rather the moment where the opponents first hits. Canāt happen under 1ā30 from what Iāve seen. 3 minutes would be the timing for a player who actually tries to defend.
Thanks Nordy. Iām glad the topic receives some attention as thereās work behind it, but itās even better to feel supported.
I think your confusing the statement āits much much easier to tell someoneās actual skill level the higher you areā with the statement āyou will be able to accurately tell someoneās skill level if you are a masterās playerā
To sum up :
ā Youāre saying that the higher level you are, the better you are at knowing what skills belong to what league (but not necessarily at noticing when being matched against).
ā Nordy and I do state that the lower level you are, the more keenly you will feel if youāre playing an user above your level (but not necessarily at knowing from which league they are from).
It seems to me that those propositions arenāt mutually exclusive.
20,95% of confirmed smurfs
(13.33% of freelosers + 7.62% of non freelosing).
79.05% to 56,19% of regular players.
Some thoughts about this :
Contrary to what I thought, this data suggest there isnāt more smurfs in silver than in the other metal leagues. Random variation due to the minute statistical power put aside, for the moment evidence suggests that the gold players would be the one suffering the most of smurfing issues. Aside the currently modest sample size, two other factors should be taken in account though
ā¦ The fact that I did not set a minimal career games to reach silver league (as I believe one could perfectly be placed in silver with 50% winrate right away). So that makes one less tool to spot smurfs, and could translate into less non freelosing smurfs detected than there really are.
ā¦ The fact that for the moment, there seems to be more freelosers.
This put aside, the results are still in the same range than what was gathered in gold, and in my observational platinum report. This suggests our estimates arenāt that inaccurate after all.
About the method used : finally, I didnāt reduce the amount of MMR randomizations compared to v1.1, as I feared it would decrease the screening power of the survey. I did very minor changes regarding discarded players, as I do not discard users anymore if their profile already gives me enough info to conclude ; and do also classify users as Ā« undefined Ā» when the data is to scarce for me to reasonably conclude. More info about current 1.1b procedure here.
A lot of players who met one of the smurfing criterias in fact met several criterias simultaneously. For example, one that would have been gold with too few games career would also have a suspiciously high winrate, or on the contrary have ā„ 3 freeloses. This makes me think weāre in a good place regarding those criterias, and I feel satisfied with current version.
FUN FACTS
If an user reaches a league with too few games in his career, that can allow to confirm him as a smurf (for example platinum MMR with 10 games in his whole career)ā¦ but it seems the reverse is also a hint. For example Iāve confirmed a freelosing smurf who had 12 000 career games while still being around silver3-bronze 1. Even extremely non gifted users wouldāve gotten at least gold by that time. Iāve seen regular players staying in silver for more than three years though, so this should be only considered as a hint.
It also seems that an irregular progression (bronze ā gold ā bronze ā gold) is a good clue.
Now for the funny part :
Once upon a time, was a lad known as Ā« Ok Ā».
Ok was a high league player, but stagnated. So, one extremely gloomy day, he decided to stop playing in diamond 1, and to freelose 1000 MMR+ in order to feel like the man again. And it worked wonders, he finally could get the 20-30 games winstreaks he had always dreamed of. By continuously slaying unsuspicious lower leagues, he felt he had regained his virility. He felt like a Flash among the men.
But good things arenāt meant to last. One Saturday in the evening, he was matched against another lower league player, that we will call Pony. Ok didnāt noticed, but the pony seemed shaken by his manly apparel, as if he had seen a ghost.
Full of confidence, Ok deployed a splendid exemplary of skill : with his 235 APM, he hit every macro timing magnificently. He even killed the opponentās scout who was trying to harass his CC building SCV. Such a foolish attempt !
But upon preparing to lay waste on the ponyās mineral line, Ok noticed the wall was made with three supplies. Suddenly, he didnāt feel ok anymore. An alert immediately sounded : his base was being assaulted by a small squad of marines, and they werenāt friendly. Listening only to his 200+ APM fingers, he got back, and tried to temporize an SCV pull. But while doing so, the second Ponyās SCV had (barely) had the time to land a bunker. He had just lost the game to a vulgar pony. And Ok wasnāt ok with that at all : he did ragequit, and by that had his first real lose in a while.
What was the difference between the pony and the 20 previous players ? Skill ? Nah, otherwise the pony wouldnāt belong to an intermediate league. It was information, as contrary to the others, the pony had learned to recognize smurfs right away.
Moral of the story : would the devs let the ladder be ruined by smurfs, we regular players would still have a chance to deal with them by ourselves. Know your enemy, goes the saying. Even more so in a strategy game.
PS : first post updated. See you in about three weeks for Bronze league !
28,57% of confirmed smurfs
(22.86% of freelosers + 5.71% of non freelosing).
71.43% to 41,91% of regular players.
Some (important) thoughts about this :
I found 28.57% of smurfs over the 105 users I randomized, with 35 for each league tier. Would those league tiers be around the same size, one could extrapolate that proportion to the whole bronze league, however that is not the case : there were way less users in bronze 3 (500 players, 49% smurfs) than in bronze 2 or 1 (1600 and 5700 players respectively, 17 to 20% smurfs). So for my stratified sampling to be correctly interpreted, I must weight the tiers differently according to the proportion of players. So here are the corrected estimates :
Corrected by leagueās population, there would be :
19.74% of smurfs.
and 80,26% of regular players in the whole bronze league.
This is the estimate I will retain from this report.
Though of course imperfect, I still feel my criterias are a good compromise between specificity and accuracy, and so am satisfied with them. However, as I was closing-in to bronze 3, I was confronted to situations where there were less and less players by MMR point, and so I had to define rules for the randomization to apply efficiently. Those changes are minor, but for those interested, can be found here as version 1.1c.
FUN-FACTS
Surnames pseudos/battletag seem to be common among smurfs, and thatās a specificity as the main benefit of pseudonyms for regular players would precisely be to conceal their usual name. So youāre matched with a player named John, Walter or Maria, that should rise an eyebrow.
As I was surveying bronze 3 this week, I stumbled among a rather typical profile at first : he had a name that sounded like a silly pun, and with 2,400 games in his career, he felt too experienced for a bronze leaguer. Interestingly enough, his clan name also felt similarly silly. So I started to dig into his profile, and wasnāt disappointed to find an impressively high amount of freeloses (more than 30-40 I think). But what caught my eye, was that he had freelost to a guy of the same teamā¦ and when he won, that was the very same dude providing him a freewin. So I checked the clan, only to find that the third member also was a smurf : we had a silver-gold and a diamond who smurfed in bronze, and a master who smurfed in gold. I had found a smurfs clan.
FINAL THOUGHTS
Thatās it folks, I said I wanted to survey the 4 metal leagues, and after many weeks, the objective is complete. I must say that task required for me to get knowledge and tools I didnāt have a first, and that coupled to the hints I had to define, and the hidden nature of my targets, I sometimes felt like some kind of secret service analyst (lol). Anyway, it was an intellectually stimulating challenge.
Overall, with the exception of Bronze 3, there arenāt more smurfs in Bronze than in the other leagues. However, Gold put aside, weāre around 20% among the metal leagues, and this is a lot. Someone said Ā« This isnāt League of Legends Ā», but with one player over 5 smurfing in those leagues after only 2 years of F2P, who could say if one day SC2 wonāt find itself in that very same spot ?
There are about 50% smurfs in Bronze 3, and what happens there confirms what I thought about circumstances where the smurfs ratio becomes high : they end up playing each other. The smurfs team is an illustration of that, but the feedback one smurf had the honesty to provide on this thread a few months ago (where he said he did play other smurfs, and freelost in that case) also is.
I have found the smurfs of some members of this very forum. I wonāt give names of course, as I donāt want to have anyone individually targeted, but what struck me is that those were often among the most virulent individuals towards the balance, or daedgamers (users claiming since several years that SC2 is a dead game), or trolls. When I saw that, I suddenly understood that those people claiming the game was destroyed were in fact first hand witnesses, as they were among the very players who were trying to ruin it.
Lastly, the previous report didnāt raise any reaction. However, with it the thread did attract lots of views (more than 320), and that even while being in the abyss of a three weeks inactivity. Thatās remarkable, and I can only hope some of the eyes apparently so interested were those of the devs. If you guys ever read this : donāt assume F2P wonāt bring to SC2 what it did to LoL. Donāt let smurfs ruin the game from beginners to intermediate levels, or you will lose the former.
Now, of course it could be interesting to survey the diamond and masters leagues, possibly to redo platinum. I could also do a best-of about the hints you could get to spot a smurf on the loading screen. And Iāve got something about the different motivations behind smurfing that might interest the devs.
But some views on a thread, without comments, without likes, and with the blue ones remaining ever silent on the matter, arenāt enough to renew my motivation. So unless thereās some change, I can let my work as is. I will still wander around to exchange as any other community member though. And, since Iām now trust level 3, will use the opportunity to transform the first post into something really neat.
They did delete and lock all the posts in that thread except the first two, so either because of the replays or something else happened after I went to bed
I didnāt get any suspension, but it shames me I canāt even discuss leaver botting. The account name of the person was removed from the thread. Massively grieving other players should be punished, not ignored and censored when itās reported. You disappoint me, Blizzard
Told you there should be nothing linking to the individual himself ; otherwise he could be targeted by the most angry readers. I might add that there are a lot of users around here who donāt see with a keen eye when their doings are denouncedā¦ and so if the smallest rule is broken in the process, they will report it so that the author gets silenced.
Now, you canāt denounce that individual ; but we can still discuss the case without breaking any rules. And that by debating over the phenomenon in general ; and anonymizing any source material.
I took a look at it, and I must say this userās procedure was quite unusual. However, after careful inspection, Iām not sure there is botting involved, and Iāll explain you why below :
The key point here is that he has zero APM, but not 50 resources. Meaning that he keeps mining, but does nothing of it. Thatās one way of ensuring defeat, though in teamgames there is no guarantee of it considering the others players might still outdo the opponents (as seen in the upper right example). Anyhow, the point is thatās an attempt at freelosing, but without insta-leaving.
The resources left are about the same from one game to another. This might be due to the mining being a bit random rather than him not leaving at the same time, and itās at Ā±5 minerals each time which is extremely close.
The guy is master, has been twice GM. Yet he has a bronze team league. This suggest the user has the skill to go way beyond his current ranking, and loses deliberately in order to get matched with lesser opponents.
His teammates arenāt the same everytime. So its random team 4v4, and he is doing his freeloses alone.
What is not shown here is that the games heās involved in can last 20-23ā minutes, but he still queues them about every 10ā. So he not only AFK but also leaves them before the end.
Also, he already has all the teamgame achievements, so this is not farming.
From what Iāve seen, he slightly moves the camera/screen downwards at the start of each replay. On the second or third replay you initially provided, there was others truly AFK users, including one who apparently was on the phone because he started playing a few minutes later. And for this one, the camera didnāt move in the least at the start of the game. However, the camera move is nearly the same each time.
On the illustrated example, he missclicks the camera which as you can see above ends up well North from his base. That means heās there at some moments for sure.
Side note, there was another AFK user in this one. Which suggest this issue isnāt infrequentā¦
From the whole analysis, we can deduce that :
Heās imputing manual commands at the start of some the games.
He does not only AFK, but also leaves them early, at about the same moment each time.
So my conclusion is that heās there at the beginning of some games for sure, but not all, while the gamesā ends look somewhat automated. So I canāt rule out an external program, particularly for the end.
As for the why, well itās made to lower his MMR so he can play lesser users (and as you could see decreased in leagues progressively, becoming gold, and then bronze later, which suggest he left league and then got placed again).
And the reason why he does AFK 5ā instead of leaving right away, IMO could be that this way the other users could not take control over his units, and that making sure that his resources wouldnāt be shared with them. So some sort of method to ensure the game is a defeat, and that his MMR indeed lowers.
And I who thought I had seen it all regarding smurfingā¦
So after your, I must say thorough investigation concluded there is no botting involved? Just some smurf leaving games after 5 minutes? Well damn. The guy must never sleep then
I mean, I went to bed and he still at it for at least 21 hours, as far as the match history is able to go back
I think heās there at some moments at least. I am not sure he hasnāt a sort of timer to close the game (which doesnāt necessarily requires a bot, but could be eased by an external program).
As for not sleeping, he could just alt-tab from SC2 to windows at at the start of each game, as suggest the slight camera moves. So he could be watching Twitch, reading at his emails, literally anything and then just closing SC2 process around 5 minutes.
Hmm. Thatās disturbing. Looking back at what I saw, he left most games at nearly the same time as well, at about 5 minerals each time. This is smurfing, and he sometimes does some inputs by himselfā¦ but that could be him just watching at how things are going from time to time, and doesnāt rules out some parts being automated.
To make sure, I took a look at the post-game debriefing you first linked (the one of 11:50 Old Estate), which is a different one from my Fortitude one, and the amount of resources mined was 1747ā¦ for 1747 in Fortitude, and 1742 in my 26:52 Old estate.
So this is too close to be done manually for 21H long. There might be automated parts to this 4v4 smurfing after allā¦
Added a banner (kudos to Carbot for his excellent work, btw ^^).
Added a TL;DR.
I realized the thread had become quite long, and that this probably discouraged the read. Thus the objective was to make the first post easier to navigate, to allow users to read only the parts they are interested in.
I started the surveys as purely observational ones, by just reporting those I faced as a player. And so it started at EUās P1-D3 MMR, and I choose to keep on that region for my randomized studies, for them to be as comparable as possible between them.
So all this data is EU. As the question didnāt seem to get people enthused, NA is missing (though as zone changing is an easy way to get an alt, I expect it not to be that different, personally) ; and I didnāt survey diamond and masters leagues either.
Thanks for your appreciation, Dallarian.
Thatās quite the tough question, PeekaChi ! A lot of smurfs do conceal their original league.
However, if by smurfs we refer at players playing under their true level, there are some who do that on their main account, or who do ladder climbs from bronze to their original level.
So, for those if we take the example of the bronze league :
BRONZE SMURFS
24 smurfs over 105 players = 28.6% of smurfs
Among those smurfs :
12,5% of silver players.
20,9% of gold players.
4,2% of platinum players.
33,3% of diamond players.
4,2% of masters.
25% canāt tell.
So there are smurfs from nearly all leagues, but this suggests a majority of those smurfing in bronze are diamond players. Thatās interesting because thatās also the feeling that I had around P1/D3 MMR. It could be informative to take a look at the other leagues surveys though, because I recall there were a lot of golds smurfing in silver.
I donāt understand the point of smurfing in this gameā¦ the whole reason itās fun is pushing boundaries, and trying to increase your skill. Itās not like League of Legends, where playing amongst weaker players is at least fun.
If someone plays rankeds only in current season and has 75 wins, no loses (100% win-ratio), on a way Bronze 2ā> Platinum 2, is that smurf?
I guess it falls into:
Being Ā« good Ā» is something very relative in this game, as there is always someone better or worse than you. Which is why most players reaching an acceptable skill in most of the gameās domains prefer to say theyāre Ā« decent Ā» rather than good.
I think itās partly because of that because there are so many smurfs from diamond, because they donāt feel that good (due to the matchmaking eventually placing them at a MMR where they have 50% defeats), while they start wondering if they have reached their skill ceiling. And from there, instead of trying to overcome a glass ceiling theyāre unsure/unwilling to invest themselves into, some of they turn towards smurfing instead.
Itās also a league where they can more easily get convinced that their limits are related to balance. Which gives people freelosing only specific match-ups.
I think those two events can happen similarly often in diamond and masters, but as there are much more diamonds than masters, in the end this implies more diamond smurfs.
I think thatās indeed why most of us do play SC2, as itās one of the most difficult/competitive games of the e-sports scene, and so it wouldnāt make sense to try oneself at it if disliking challenge.
But the amount of challenge a player is ready to accept varies wildly among individuals. And so if they reach a point where they are convinced the challenge is unfair (due to balanceā¦ but also to higher leagues smurfs, or even to the matchmaking range), some players choose to forsake challenge and seek fun only.
Some also need victories in order to feel good, or canāt stand defeat anymore (which is a form of increase in ladder anxiety) and so they freelose in order to avoid defeats as much as possible.
Iāve found quantities of reasons behind that behavior ; most of them being rather bad. Iāve noted them all somewhere, in case if the devs would wish to understand the motivations better.
Itās either a walk in the park type described above (the ones who canāt stand defeat), or someone doing Bronze to Masters tutorials. The latter are extremely rare (about 1% of smurfs at most), so chances are that you found a bad one.
Nevertheless, your target indeed fulfills the criteria for a non freelosing smurf. Youāve successfully hunted your first smurf, Dallarian ! ^^