Yeah and no longer require a range upgrade. They also do more dps in SC2. The combat shield and the base HP buff (from 40 base to 45 base in SC2) allowed marines to see play in all matchups in SC2.
Exactly.
Agreed. My god the old void rays that had prismatic charge ups scaled unbelievably well.
Most of that work horse play comes out before adrenal. Adrenal was intended to keep zerglings relevant in BW late game, but in SC2 and particularly LOTV zerg simply don’t need adrenal. Lings are much faster in SC2 than in BW and can do much more damage as a result, particularly with run bys late game.
I don’t think adrenal glands is a critical issue by any means, but it’s totally unnecessary in SC2 and is a contributor to zerg’s overpowered late game. Cracklings are far too efficient in SC2 with the autosurround feature, enhanced ling speed and better pathing. Zerg is not supposed to be the efficient race. Cracklings in SC1, while efficient on paper, had lots of pathing and surround issues and could be shredded in late game battles due to it.
Late game ling/banes stop working as effectively, but adrenal gland’s existence doesn’t change this. Brood lords/infestors come into play late game though… if zerglings have to come out it’s because the zerg ran out of gas. ZvT late game is heavily zerg favored.
The reason zerg needs gas to stop marines is the same reason protoss needs psi storm and/or colossus to counter marines; because marines are weak to aoe and aoe costs gas. Also, marine use has gas investment. While Marines cost minerals they need medivacs to work effectively (and usually marauder support). Both cost gas.
The remax ability means quite a lot. It is a core strength of the zerg race… It’s one of the contributing reasons zerg’s late game is so powerful. Their units are efficient now, so they take favorable trades late game and remax far quicker than their opponent. Combine that with their inherent economic advantage (so they have a huge bank late game) and zerg is extremely strong late game.
That’s more due to the zergling’s speed. A run by will do significant damage with or without adrenal glands.
Protoss deathball is not nearly as effective as it once was. Zealots that get into the zerg base need to be doing damage before roaches or cracklings get made to stop them. Zerg in general needs to be taking damage to lose in this meta, and having cracklings beat out zealots is a contributing problem.
Which is why I suggested an ultralisk buff. But really, zerg doesn’t need either lings or ultras to succeed late game and everyone knows that. Their late game is overpowering w/brood lords and infestors.
I agree with this. The outcomes don’t need to be balanced for the game to be balanced. Zealots don’t need to counter zerglings by cost or supply or what have you for the game to be balanced. But on a conceptual level, zealots should beat lings by cost. Lings have the speed advantage, they are better scouts due to costing less supply, they’re more versatile because they can morph into banelings, and they can come out in huge numbers due to zerg remaxing. Zerg is supposed to have the inefficient swarmy units and ability to remax faster, with a better economy. That’s the zerg fantasy. LOTV has really ruined that, and many people have taken issue with it. Zerglings should have to make flanking and multi pronged manuevers to defeat zealots, but right now that just isn’t the case. The lings simply a move into zealots and auto surround defeats them handily.
Yes you can deal with this by mixing in archons or using forcefields, but often times the zerg still has efficient trades this way. And zerg should not be about efficiency. There’s ways of balancing the game while keeping the fantasy and gameplay fun and engaging.
I’d say there’s two ways of balancing the game- one is circumstantial balance and the other is inherent balance. Circumstantial balance can keep the game balanced by circumstance- The most relevant example again being current PvT meta - terran armies shred equal cost protoss armies, but protoss can get an economic advantage by getting a quick third and even make the matchup slightly more protoss favorable. SC2 is very much a circumstantially balanced game, as ProNoob is suggesting. An inherent balance would allow all race matchups to be even regardless of circumstance. Much harder to do, but it would be far more interesting.
The zealot/ling design failure, by the way, has to do with balancing vs Terran for both races. Nerf the ling too much, and zerg will struggle vs T. Buff the zealot too much, and T will struggle vs P. A fundamental redesign of the game to bring back the equilibrium between the races in a way that makes sense for their racial identity would make for much more interesting and satisfying game play.
I’m not sure why it’s out of touch. Zerg don’t need adrenal glands to use lings late game, particularly w/run bys. It’s certainly far less out of touch than removing, say, graviton catapult, which completely gutted the carrier. Carriers need catapult to be useful while zerglings don’t need adrenal to be useful.